Front lower controll arm bearing.

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Barry
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Front lower controll arm bearing.

Post by Barry » Mon May 29, 2006 7:42 am

I have finished 2x lower control arms for the 20l turbo project Im on..
A few of you guys have asked me about replacing the the std bushes using bearings instead.
Let me say that before all and sundry shoot the idea of bearings down,My Giulietta v6 has been running on the excact same setup for the past 6 years..
This includes radical track days at Kyalami..

The inside shaft diameter is 17mm.So I use a 6003 2z sealed bearing as it has an id of 17mm.

The control arm id is 37.8mm.The bearing od is 35mm.I purchased some ptfe in 40mm diameter and machined spacers and end dust caps .This stuff is used in a non active role,so it will last forever.

A single 6003 zz bearing has the static capacity of only 245 kilograms.It also has a dynamic load capacity of 480kg.
Because this is way too low for a car of 1200 odd kg loading the outside wheel in a corner while angry,I use 3 bearings on each end.That equates to 12 bearing per side..
More than enough to handle any force ..except maybe a brick wall at 160km/h...
Attachments
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I use 3 bearing on each end.
DSC00107.JPG (149.74 KiB) Viewed 9751 times
DSC00109.JPG
Fitting the sleeve and bearings at the torsion side..
DSC00109.JPG (147.96 KiB) Viewed 9752 times
DSC00113.JPG
Machining of the sleeve,checking with a bearing..
DSC00113.JPG (152.79 KiB) Viewed 9754 times
DSC00116.JPG
Bearings within the housing and sleeve..
DSC00116.JPG (143.25 KiB) Viewed 9754 times
DSC00115.JPG
and the final product..
DSC00115.JPG (148.53 KiB) Viewed 9757 times
Last edited by Barry on Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Barry
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Post by Barry » Mon May 29, 2006 7:53 am

Mmmm,ok,a max of 5 attachments has been made and I cannot make any more...

Anyhow,You guys will not believe how this mod tightnens up the front end of a car..
As for it being noisy and harsh,forget it..if you didnt know about it,it would seem as normal..

Water is not a problem, hence the zz pack bearing(double seal and ptfe end caps..)
Attachments
DSC00105.JPG
This was to be at the top of the above post...
DSC00105.JPG (149.87 KiB) Viewed 9745 times
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Carel
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Post by Carel » Mon May 29, 2006 7:57 am

hi Barry

i've not been able to get rid of the shimmy on the front end yet, seems to start on the left, but I am not sure.

I was thinking about rebuilding the front completly.

I've been in your Giulietta and it was not harsh at all, so I was wondering. maybe this is a worth while exersize while I'm at it....

the question is, should I do this, or is doing the upper control arms a better plan...or both of course.

Carel
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Post by Barry » Mon May 29, 2006 8:10 am

Carel,Hi..Its always worth doing this i.m.o.
I would in your case do both upper and lower..
We should get together and sort out that shimmy you have..Im sure its something small and stupid..This is Dwaynes car btw..
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Daniel
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Post by Daniel » Mon May 29, 2006 12:49 pm

Hi Barry
Is that a glass reinforced PTFE or pure PTFE ?
I'd have thought pure PTFE would deform and extrude under the loads.
I like it - definitely going this way :D
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Post by Greg Gordon » Mon May 29, 2006 4:14 pm

I like the idea of using ball bearings here. Very nice work Barry. I just changed out these same bushings a couple weeks ago and I have yet to see a set of factory bushings used here that's not deformed. The factory bushings don't hold up long term, at least not if you are hard on the car. That's one reason the alignment changes over time and it's very annoying. I wish I had seen this post a couple weeks ago!

Greg
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Post by Barry » Mon May 29, 2006 8:33 pm

Dan,normal ptfe...Theres no where for it to go..My Giulietta has had the same setup in for 6 years already..Why dont you use a steel insert?Then your assured it does not collapse and go walkies.

Thanks Greg..maybe pull yours once more,huh?believe me,its worth it.. :wink:
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Post by Daniel » Mon May 29, 2006 9:59 pm

Nup, if pure PTFE works for you, then I'll go for it as well.
The question came from having seen too many pure PTFE ball valve seats extruded into pipelines by large pressures. :shock:
Steel may be easier for someone like me to hold tolerance with but I do like the end cap idea that goes with the PTFE. Guess i'd better develop a talent for machining PTFE :roll:
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Post by TS_turbo » Mon May 29, 2006 11:45 pm

Great work ! as usual for Barry's stuff :D
we done this way last year for my friends car ... but we did 2 bearings+thick spacer ...and brass sleeve ...works very well ... for my car i want to try putting roller bearings instead of BB ones ... but i dont know awailable sizes :? need to check
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Post by Barry » Tue May 30, 2006 12:50 am

Dobri,By roller bearing I assume your talking about needle rollers??

Not a good idea..What happens is the needles have a very limited angle to work in,they then start wearing a pattern on the cage.This then causes the needle roller to colapse after a while.

Been there ,done that.It did not last a year for me.

I researched the deep groove ball and it does the job very well.If you want to improve on it,rather look at a double deep groove ball.I did not go that route as they were 4x the price of the single deep groove ball..

Saying that made me smile...all 12 bearings cost less than 1 Alfa bush... :D
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Post by Mats » Tue May 30, 2006 3:51 am

TS_Turbo: Huge axial loads here, don't forget that. Maybe angle contact roller bearings would work though but they tend to cost quite a lot unless standard sizes.
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Post by Maurizio » Tue May 30, 2006 4:35 am

Another not so nice one is that the same balls of the bearing get the punishment. Kind of the worst load you can imagine. Best would be a uniball (large diameter, lowest Herzian stress), but standard sizes will not fit.
Go for the standard single row bearing that fits with the largest diameter balls inside . Everything else will make it expensive.

No dry lubrication needed, bearing does that job, so POM-C as an alternative for the ptfe will do.
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Post by Jim K » Tue May 30, 2006 6:09 am

Hey Barry, thats good stuff there...real good! :!: How about you do a little write-up and clear pics for the 6cyl book?? Serious! Of course, I won't pay you shit...ok, maybe a schnitzel at the Ring (won't hold me breath though!) :wink:
Jim K.
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Barry
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Post by Barry » Tue May 30, 2006 7:38 am

Jim,Yea,ok...Carel is doing his car and has just asked if Id do the "kit" for him..
Ill base it on that.

I have your other pics to take as well...items have been looking at me for about 3 weeks here...You want me to paint parting line red??

Hey,Ill mail ya..

Maurizio,I looked at uniball,expensive and not as robust as the deep groove rollers..check it out.. 8)
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Post by Jim K » Tue May 30, 2006 9:51 am

Yeah, use your best red nail polish :lol:
I just did the same on a 2.5 head someone gave me for cutting, I'll post pics when ready.
Jim K.
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