ALFAGTV6.COM

Maurizio · Post by **Maurizio** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:52 am

Found the pictures, everyting adjustable. The added leaf springs make the dion tube to an IRS

SydneyJules · Post by **SydneyJules** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:39 pm

That's what Im talking about!!!

Any more Maurizio?

gracie mille !

J

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:24 pm

Arrrggghh, that looks like semi trailing arms. It's not is it ??
Bad things (worse than Dedion) happen in roll and bump with those things. Ask anyone with a pre 993 Porsche 911 about rear suspension woes.
The only way to go is double wishbones if you're going to do it. A skyline or mazda MX5 setup would work quite nicely but who's going to do it first and show the rest of us ?

Maurizio · Post by **Maurizio** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:56 pm

Daniel wrote:Arrrggghh, that looks like semi trailing arms. It's not is it ??

This works like double wishbones. I had to think about it a bit when I saw the pictures the fist time, but its just brilliant. Like I said , it looks like the autodelta engineers tried to hide the irs for the tech inprection.

Sorry Jules, no more pics, this is all they had on their webpage. Would love to see some more.

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:36 pm

Daniel,

I'm sure this works great. Nothing like early pooshces

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:49 pm

...or BMW's

SydneyJules · Post by **SydneyJules** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:51 pm

Perhaps something custom based on this stuff could be welded to the transaxle, or cradled around it, and welded to the floor?

http://www.edge.au.com/product_doubleasusp.htm

You would need to make sure the angles all worked properly...

Yeah- a Skyline rear end is still probably the easiest solution... and better than early BMW trailing arm stuff...

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:59 pm

Julus man, that's rough but a fully fabricated setup would mean you could set it up for the car perfectly. Lots of work !!

SydneyJules · Post by **SydneyJules** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:07 pm

Yeah... I know what you mean...

I can tell that in the end I will be speaking to my friend's dad about it all (Mechanical Engineer BMW guys with the F1 Turbo Sport Sedan)...

I cant find any drawings of the skyline or silvia rear end... did find a Lotus 7 replica site with De Dion drawings though hahaha

Fuck Im gonna spend alot of money on this bloody car one day!

SydneyJules · Post by **SydneyJules** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:08 pm

Ben Bishop has had some funky Ideas in the past too.... but when you spend your days working with guns, Im sure anything is worth a break!

SydneyJules · Post by **SydneyJules** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:16 pm

Wow...

Giocattolo Style with VL Walkinshaw Twin Throttle 308 and ZF....

You cant tell me that a De Dion is better than this "because it keeps the rear wheels parallel to the contact surface @ all times"

Now Im just being a dickhead. Yes I know you all thought that from the start!

Yeah I know, Pie in the sky I suppose... except for someone with $$$$$

And in that circumstance, you would build it mid mounted, with a TT 24v 3.7 sitting behind the driver, based on a spaceframe, with inboard front shocks.... like Ricciardello's 350 Chev powered sport sedan GTV....

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:28 pm

Jules, Actually the DeDion tube keeps the rear wheels perpendicular to the road at all times. Parallel would be really bad.

Of course a stock DeDion setup doesn't compare to an ultra high budget exotic car type rear suspenion. However I can't think of any cars built in the GTV6's era or price range that have an independent suspension that works better.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:25 am

Spot on, Greg. But I do think he was talking about the thread of the tíre not the wheel itself.

TS_turbo · Post by **TS_turbo** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:36 am

Julian take a look here ... again some crazy swe guy is making lotus 7 kit car with TS and transaxle ... very interesting IRS double wishbones
useing dedion part ... looks funny

http://illustrera.se/ovrigt/ovrigt_02.htm
btw scandinavians are funny people .. they have may be the worst weather (long winter) in EU ... but are absolutely car freaks

la_strega_nera · Post by **la_strega_nera** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:29 am

Honestly, the gains over a well setup De-Dion aren't worth the effort, especiall if big HP is your goal. The advantage that DeDions and Live axles have is they don't gain negative camber as the car squats under acceleration, which prevents them from toasting the inside of the rear tires. You can of course limit this ala most modern race cars by simply making the thing so damn stiff there is no camber changes. I've ridden in a V8 Supercar, and have to say they have no lack of rear end grip thanks to their well setup live axle.
All the "off the shelf" type solutions (ie stuff taken from existing roadcars) are fairly limited. If you were going to be serious about it, you'd use a setup much like a F5000 or a modern sports sedan, or even GT40 replica based bits. Things like C5 corvette uprights with a lower arm, a pair of trailing links and an upper arm, with good geometry. Byt the time you've gottten that far, you've so outclassed the front end geometry that you might aswell redesign the front end.
If you look closely, that Giocattalo rear is really sucky. A few years back I had the chance to talk to a guy involved with trying to get one to work (handle) properly with big HP for Targa Tazzy. Basically the lower wishbones are mounted to the gearbox cradle, which if you look is mounted via rubber to the chassis. Naturally this walks around under power and under cornering loads and the geometry changes get pretty nasty. No wonder the designer is EX mclaren(?)

To me the best solution is to find the lightest DeDion you can (that ultra light alfetta guy found one 6kg lighter than the others?), or have a lightweight unit fabbed up, relocate the watts (centre pivot on the chassis) or go to a mumford link (if you dopn't want to trade ground clearance for roll centre height) remembering the height of the front de dion pivot has an effect too (i'd personally look at a different locating arm arrangement), keep the brakes inboard with some decent ducting, and sort the frontend out

Put some money in well setup Shocks. Off the shelf is always a compromise. Dig up a set of s/h Bilsteins and get the rebuilt/revalved to suit your spring rates and motion ratios... makes a huge difference. There's a really good mob in Sydney that do them too.
The simple change from Konis to Bilsteins made a huge difference in my GTV... Konis just outright suck. Too stiff on the small fast bumps giving a harsh ride, too soft in controling body roll type movements.... you'd almost swear they were just a straight orifice damper rather than a modern linear rate or digressive rate shim stack type damper.

Now, if anyone has any ideas on how to make a leaf sprung 600hp Group Nc Falcon handle on 235 wide crossplies, let me know! Far more grunt than grip! And if anyone wants to donate to my race motor fund....

Ben