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P.Webb
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Post by P.Webb »

Mats wrote:If you're going to use 4/100 on a 4/98 hub you need a nut with a floating washer. Basically it's like a regular nut but the conical part is loose and can move around a bit to adjust to the slightly off centre stud.

FYI, OZ doesn't make 4/98 and 5/98 rims any more, thay list them but they are 4/100 and 5/100 rims that you need to use these "floating" nuts on.
God only knows where you can find a floating anti-theft nut... :?
That sounds scary!!

I had an aluminum spacer made that converts 5x98 to 5x100. The spacer bolts onto the 5x98 hub studs and has 5x100 studs pressed into it. It's perfectly safe. I use VW wheels with 35ET.


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Post by Mats »

Scary? Are you afraid to use washers under the nuts on the headstuds too? :wink:
Perfectly safe I'd say. But the nuts are expensive as hell and I have yet to find an anti-theft version of it.
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Post by P.Webb »

Mats wrote:Scary? Are you afraid to use washers under the nuts on the headstuds too? :wink:
Perfectly safe I'd say. But the nuts are expensive as hell and I have yet to find an anti-theft version of it.
I feel more comfortable with things being lugcentric as well as hubcentric. With the weird 58.5mm centerbore, there's always some slop in the hubcentricity so the wheels ride on the lugs to some degree.

Probably OK for street use but I wouldn't take that setup on the track. Too much lateral force for my liking.

I've seen cars on the track with the 5x100 wheels with the lug holes reamed and sleeved to fit 5x98. I suppose that's an option but if you bend a wheel you have to redrill the new wheel every time.

After evaluating all of these, I thought the spacer option changing the lug pattern was the safest and most convenient. And it's an advantage to increase the track slightly (about 1.7" in my case w/ 22mm spacers).

I guess it depends how much your ass is worth @ 130 :)

-Peter
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Post by jrreeve »

Wouldn't it just be better to buy blanks and have them drilled? Seems like an helluva lot of trouble to deal with spacers and floating nuts...and whatnot. How many places still offer blanks?

Sometimes the tire rack will do that for you, if you're real nice :D

Rob
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Post by P.Webb »

jrreeve wrote:Wouldn't it just be better to buy blanks and have them drilled? Seems like an helluva lot of trouble to deal with spacers and floating nuts...and whatnot. How many places still offer blanks?

Sometimes the tire rack will do that for you, if you're real nice :D

Rob
Blanks are hard to get. Depends on the salesperson you get at Tire Rack. If the wheel is discontinued you're screwed if you damage one (easy to do on a track car). Then you have to through the pain of finding someone to do it right. Sounded like too much of a hassle to me.

I'm happy with the lug changing spacer. Bolt it on and forget it. VW/Subaru wheels will be around forever and they're very cheap.

Just my preference. Whichever route you go is fine so long as it's safe.

-Peter
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Post by Alfa GTV6 NZ »

How much did the spacers cost to get made?

Have you got the specs for yours? as my brother is a machineist and would most likely be able to make me some.

Thanks
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Post by P.Webb »

I had mine made by Serpent Autosport. http://www.serpentautosport.com/accessories.htm

I forget how much he charged me. I think it was $225 or so.

I'd have to measure again for all the specs. I sent him the hub diameter, hub centerbore, wheel centerbore (that depends on the wheel you use), the 5x98 circle and 5x100 circle part was easy. He figured out the counterbore and provided the lug nuts with the correct taper and shaft for the spacers to the hub. He doesn't use a sleeve in the spacer to hub bores but uses shank lug nuts that fit the exact ID of the holes to make them lugcentric as well as hubcentric.

The customer service from Charlie DiMarco at Serpent was first class. We had a couple of issues with fitment and he not only ate the cost of shipping to fix them but paid for overnight shipping there and back because I needed them for that weekend. I'd highly recommend him to make them even though they're expensive. He stands behind his product and (I'm sure for liability purposes) makes sure they're a perfect and safe fitment.

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Post by ar4me »

I feel more comfortable with things being lugcentric as well as hubcentric. With the weird 58.5mm centerbore
Uh, you mean 58.6mm? - perhaps that's why you have slop :wink:

Jes
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Post by P.Webb »

ar4me wrote:
I feel more comfortable with things being lugcentric as well as hubcentric. With the weird 58.5mm centerbore
Uh, you mean 58.6mm? - perhaps that's why you have slop :wink:

Jes
Then it would be tighter.
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Post by ar4me »

Peter,

Someone (like you who went through the trouble of having the conversion kit from AR 5x98 to the more popular 5x100 made) should make a batch of conversion kits as I'm sure many milano/gtv6 owners would like a wider selection of wheels. Only issue would be if the wheel manufacturers provide/make the proper centering rings for the 58.6 mm AR milano/gtv6 center bore. Also, the increase in traction (due to the kit) could be countered by using a different wheel offset, I suppose, as I imagine street applications would want to maintain the stock traction.

Jes
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Post by P.Webb »

I don't really have an interest in the parts business. Liability alone on a part like this makes me run away.

Charlie DiMarco is your neighbour there in SoCal. You can strike a deal up with him and/or his machinist to distribute the spacers. He can make different thicknesses for whichever offset wheel you end up with. Easier to adjust the spacer to the offset of the available wheels than find an available offset to fit the spacer.

The centerbore of the wheels aren't an issue. The spacer is 58.6mm centerbore to fit the hub. The spacer lip is machined to a more common centerbore and trim ring size for the wheel.

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Post by ar4me »

That's a nice, clean, solution you have Peter!

I already ordered Team Dynamics Pro Race I 17x7 (5x98) wheels for my track car project. With your solution (or the special offset lugs Mats mentioned) the OZ Superleggera are possible!!! I know that the special offset lugs are TUV approved, but, like you, I feel more comfortable with an "exact" fit, so to speak - probably just me being a sissy...

Jes
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Post by Mats »

One problem with a "comversion spacer" is that it needs to be quite thick to work, something like 25mm. Unless you find a rim with ET in the fiftys you will have problems.
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Post by P.Webb »

Mats wrote:One problem with a "comversion spacer" is that it needs to be quite thick to work, something like 25mm. Unless you find a rim with ET in the fiftys you will have problems.
Why do you say that?

The spacers I use are 22mm thick with a 35ET (38mm) wheel. They can be be 15mm to 25mm. The track is increased about 20mm per side which is reasonable without too much extra wheel bearing load. Stock offset for a transaxle car is 30ET (35mm) so I'd need a 45ET to 48ET wheel to get to stock offset. The increased track is a good thing in my book so long as it's not such that it causes the wheel bearings to wear. A 15mm spacer would allow a 40ET wheel for stock. There are plenty of wheels available in this range. VW uses a 5x100 35ET, Mitsubishi use a 5x100 40ET and Subaru use a 5x100 48ET.

You don't have to do 5x100 either. You can do 5x114.5 (5x4.5") for any American Ford or Chevy wheel. 5x120 for a BMW or Mercedes wheel. The options are wide open once you move away from the 5x98 restriction.

If you approach this from a pick the wheel then make the spacer direction instead of a make the spacer then find a wheel direction, it's not a big issue to make it fit nicely. Make sure you pick a wheel that's going to be available for some time or at least a fitment that will be on the manufacturers radar for some time to come. When I bent 2 of my Team Dynamics 17x7.5 DTM wheels, I couldn't find a wheel anywhere. TD has discontinued them. Now try finding another wheel in 17x7.5 5x98 that isn't a small fortune (I'd have to buy 4 and end up with 2 bent and 2 good useless, obsolete wheels). If I get a Subaru or VW wheel, I know the VW fitment will be around for a long time, with a wide selection and a low cost. I happen to have the Mille Miglia VW Golf wheels in 18x8. I got them used for $300. I can get a set of VW 18x8 wheels all day on EBay for $400-500 a set new or about $700 a set for light weight wheels (18x8, 15.5lbs). That's still under $200 per wheel. Try even finding an 18" wheel for an Alfa, let alone one that's under $200/per.

I think my logic is sound.

-Peter
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Post by Mats »

I'm not going into the bolt patterns and wheel brands, that is just too much to cover here.
I too would choose rims first and make the spacer afterwards, that is sound logic.

But making the scrub radius 10-15mm larger is not so good and in it's most harmless form will make the wheel rub against fenders and wheel wells, if you are unlucky your car will be undrivable unless the road is perfectly flat.
I'm not saying all cars will be turned into pigs but one should be aware of the possilbility before spending the money.
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