did it work?
sorry, but i never used MS-2...only MS1...
Enzo I'll let you know later today.
One thing that suddenly occurred to me is that I can use the idle speed adjustment on the intake plenum to increase idle speed.I was thinking that this had to be accomplished within MS but finally my brain is working
One thing that suddenly occurred to me is that I can use the idle speed adjustment on the intake plenum to increase idle speed.I was thinking that this had to be accomplished within MS but finally my brain is working
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Glad you got it working, well done that man!
Couple of clarifications from reading the earlier posts:
The zero's in the fuel table shown give zero fuelling on the overrun across that range of rpm, it's not really necessary, it's purely for fuel consumption.
A row lower than 30 kpa is necessary as with the engine at normal operating temp you should idle at something around 30 kpa (approx rule of thumb is the lower the better), when decelerating mine pulls down to 11kpa. The sub 30 row keeps this overun smooth and driveable, the very bottom row set one kpa lower allows the setting of an rpm specific fuel cut off range where you want it. Note, MS has a fuel cut option with a configurable lower limit but no upper limit and I've heard from racers that a total and abrupt fuel cut is unwise at high rpms for engine longevity. The reason might be BS, but the car runs better this way, so hey!
My 2 rows above 100 kpa are indeed for boost such that I don't have to re-do the tables again. I don't have any boost yet, but note to Greg, I'm saving up!
Some advice on the tuning now it's running. IF it runs don't mess with the cold start settings yet, let the car get warm then tune the idle areas for the best and smoothest idle. Once it idles smoothly then for your next proper cold start you can tinker with those settings in the sure knowledge that your basic idle is all OK. A little rich idles better than stoic or lean, I'm surprised no one noticed I run leaner in cruise than at idle, but that's the way it works best.
Once again well done.
regards
Steve
Couple of clarifications from reading the earlier posts:
The zero's in the fuel table shown give zero fuelling on the overrun across that range of rpm, it's not really necessary, it's purely for fuel consumption.
A row lower than 30 kpa is necessary as with the engine at normal operating temp you should idle at something around 30 kpa (approx rule of thumb is the lower the better), when decelerating mine pulls down to 11kpa. The sub 30 row keeps this overun smooth and driveable, the very bottom row set one kpa lower allows the setting of an rpm specific fuel cut off range where you want it. Note, MS has a fuel cut option with a configurable lower limit but no upper limit and I've heard from racers that a total and abrupt fuel cut is unwise at high rpms for engine longevity. The reason might be BS, but the car runs better this way, so hey!
My 2 rows above 100 kpa are indeed for boost such that I don't have to re-do the tables again. I don't have any boost yet, but note to Greg, I'm saving up!
Some advice on the tuning now it's running. IF it runs don't mess with the cold start settings yet, let the car get warm then tune the idle areas for the best and smoothest idle. Once it idles smoothly then for your next proper cold start you can tinker with those settings in the sure knowledge that your basic idle is all OK. A little rich idles better than stoic or lean, I'm surprised no one noticed I run leaner in cruise than at idle, but that's the way it works best.
Once again well done.
regards
Steve
83' GTV6, 3.0 24v supercharged
Just looked at the data log and settings.
It's idling rich, so knock that back a bit. Hard to say how rich from a NB O2 sensor but I'd say quite a bit as the idle MAP of 70ish is also v high - with tinkering it should idle nearer to 30-35kpa.
Correct, also remember to adjust the idle speed with the factory nut. I forgot this too first time round!
Also the EGO settings need changing, at the moment it does nothing as step size is zero, but luckily this is a good thing as it's also set too low at 900rpm. Set it to around 1500rpm so that it doesnt affect your idle. Also go with a lower authority figure otherwise you will always be driving on the EGO corrector and not your map.
Also a question, is your O2 sensor heated? IF yes then you can use it for mixture reference at idle.... tweak the mixture until it suddenly shows lean, then richen up a bit - should get pretty close for a rough tune.
Hope that helps.
Steve
It's idling rich, so knock that back a bit. Hard to say how rich from a NB O2 sensor but I'd say quite a bit as the idle MAP of 70ish is also v high - with tinkering it should idle nearer to 30-35kpa.
Correct, also remember to adjust the idle speed with the factory nut. I forgot this too first time round!
Also the EGO settings need changing, at the moment it does nothing as step size is zero, but luckily this is a good thing as it's also set too low at 900rpm. Set it to around 1500rpm so that it doesnt affect your idle. Also go with a lower authority figure otherwise you will always be driving on the EGO corrector and not your map.
Also a question, is your O2 sensor heated? IF yes then you can use it for mixture reference at idle.... tweak the mixture until it suddenly shows lean, then richen up a bit - should get pretty close for a rough tune.
Hope that helps.
Steve
83' GTV6, 3.0 24v supercharged
Steve thank you for the advice.I'll take it.I'm posting a pic.from my datalog which I ran this morning.I think one of the problems I've got is controller resets as the time value is all over the place.This is making me think that I better go straight to ignition control (It's a MS II V3.0 wired up for Hall input and direct coil control) because from what I've read my current coil negative input is probably bringing in lots of "noise".I presume by switching to Hall input I'll eliminate one issue.I wanted to go step by step -fuel then ignition but I don't want to start modifying my board just to deal will the coil negative problem and then have to change it back later.
Another strange issue I have is when I calibrate my TPS I get a closed throttle reading of 1009 and an open throttle reading of 1002 ? It's a brand new Bosch pot type.With a DMM resistance varies from2.2k ohms to 1.2k ohms.
Another strange issue I have is when I calibrate my TPS I get a closed throttle reading of 1009 and an open throttle reading of 1002 ? It's a brand new Bosch pot type.With a DMM resistance varies from2.2k ohms to 1.2k ohms.
- Attachments
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- datalog200602171124.xls
- (62.8 KiB) Downloaded 434 times
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- graph.jpg (180.78 KiB) Viewed 10328 times
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Oh,wait a minute..as soon as I downloaded the pic things "smoothed out" ahem*chough chough*Yes Barry you must have inhaled some of that nice Rich exhaust coming out of my tailpipe >The rpm signal that the ECU is presenting seems to be reasonably stable.I think the "noise is coming in on the TPS line because at idle my log shows a flashing "accel"box.
>The rpm signal that the ECU is presenting seems to be reasonably stable.I think the "noise is coming in on the TPS line because at idle my log shows a flashing "accel"box.1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Hi Murray,
Looking at the datalog their does seem to be tons of noise on the TPS, that would explain your accel light flickering - it shouldn't unless you deliberately prob the throttle. Also I don't understand how it can go negative - unless the TPS is moving about on it's mounting.
Suggest check the TPS mounting point then if OK swapping in some shielded cable for the TPS signal wire then re-calibrating it in MS. For shielded wire any coax will do temporarily, microphone cable, TV cable etc is fine to troubleshoot.
Also I'm concerned about your MAP reading as it never seems to go low. Hold the car at 3000rpm or higher and snap the throttle shut.... the MAP should dip at least momentarily nice and low as the engine slows, it might not be obvious on the laptop but you'll see it in your datalog. If you don't ever see lower than the 60's it shows now then check your MAP sensor works OK by appying a vacuum to it if you can.
Also can you post what acceleration enrichment settings are you using?
Steve
Looking at the datalog their does seem to be tons of noise on the TPS, that would explain your accel light flickering - it shouldn't unless you deliberately prob the throttle. Also I don't understand how it can go negative - unless the TPS is moving about on it's mounting.
Suggest check the TPS mounting point then if OK swapping in some shielded cable for the TPS signal wire then re-calibrating it in MS. For shielded wire any coax will do temporarily, microphone cable, TV cable etc is fine to troubleshoot.
Also I'm concerned about your MAP reading as it never seems to go low. Hold the car at 3000rpm or higher and snap the throttle shut.... the MAP should dip at least momentarily nice and low as the engine slows, it might not be obvious on the laptop but you'll see it in your datalog. If you don't ever see lower than the 60's it shows now then check your MAP sensor works OK by appying a vacuum to it if you can.
Also can you post what acceleration enrichment settings are you using?
Steve
83' GTV6, 3.0 24v supercharged
Steve here are images of my Acceleration and Warmup settings.
My Tps mounting is rock solid - just custom made it to fit the Bosch/Volvo 850 sensor.
The MAP sensor responds when I test it on the stim and attach a tube and suck - tasty.I plumbed it into the plenum just as you instructed in your writeup......as I'm writing this I had a moment of doubt,ran out and checked and I had used another line to the plenum which runs to the charcoal emissions canister (you don't have this on your car).This shouldn't be a problem but just to be sure I've re-plumbed to the line from the fuel pressure regulator.
My Tps mounting is rock solid - just custom made it to fit the Bosch/Volvo 850 sensor.
The MAP sensor responds when I test it on the stim and attach a tube and suck - tasty.I plumbed it into the plenum just as you instructed in your writeup......as I'm writing this I had a moment of doubt,ran out and checked and I had used another line to the plenum which runs to the charcoal emissions canister (you don't have this on your car).This shouldn't be a problem but just to be sure I've re-plumbed to the line from the fuel pressure regulator.
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- Warmwiz.jpg (40.54 KiB) Viewed 10306 times
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- ACCELWIZ.jpg (38.06 KiB) Viewed 10305 times
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Ah OK, I reckon that might be it. Have you run the car since moving the MAP line from the cannister to the other plenum entry? That one change might well have done the trick as the charcol cannister will always have a flow of air through it (ie no solid vacuum) whereas the line to the FPR is effectively a dead end and therefore a source of consistant vacuum for the ECU.
Also I think the accel settings are bit too generous, this is an area where less is more. You are looking for the minimum accel enrichments that will give a responsive engine, too much fuel bogs down more than too little! Number one tuning trick is get a good idle first, so set your accel enrich to wholly MAP based, set the threshold to about 900kpa per sec, which should stop it intervening...
Cold start settings look OK btw.
Now with the MAP line "T"d to the FPR line and no accel enrich invoked feedback how it runs..... fingers crossed at this end.
Steve
Also I think the accel settings are bit too generous, this is an area where less is more. You are looking for the minimum accel enrichments that will give a responsive engine, too much fuel bogs down more than too little! Number one tuning trick is get a good idle first, so set your accel enrich to wholly MAP based, set the threshold to about 900kpa per sec, which should stop it intervening...
Cold start settings look OK btw.
Now with the MAP line "T"d to the FPR line and no accel enrich invoked feedback how it runs..... fingers crossed at this end.
Steve
83' GTV6, 3.0 24v supercharged
Well guys thanks to your help I feel like I'm over the hump
Steve the Map line tapped into the emission control canister was in fact giving me bad readings.Now that it's into the FP regulator line it appears to be acting more like expected.
Today its -20C here and my car is in my very much unheated garage.Despite that she fired after about 3 seconds and held idle.
I think I tracked the TPS noise problem down and I found it interesting.After reviewing the AR wiring diagrams I noticed that circuits numbered 2/1 & 3/1 run out of the TPS and into the evil EZ-L advance computer.I yanked these lines out of the ignition ECU connector and voila clean signal.Makes sense I guess because there are two shielded wires running into this thing -one from the Hall signal in the distributor and one out to the coil power module.
I've attached a piece my datalog just to prove I'm not making this up
Steve the Map line tapped into the emission control canister was in fact giving me bad readings.Now that it's into the FP regulator line it appears to be acting more like expected.
Today its -20C here and my car is in my very much unheated garage.Despite that she fired after about 3 seconds and held idle.
I think I tracked the TPS noise problem down and I found it interesting.After reviewing the AR wiring diagrams I noticed that circuits numbered 2/1 & 3/1 run out of the TPS and into the evil EZ-L advance computer.I yanked these lines out of the ignition ECU connector and voila clean signal.Makes sense I guess because there are two shielded wires running into this thing -one from the Hall signal in the distributor and one out to the coil power module.
I've attached a piece my datalog just to prove I'm not making this up
- Attachments
-
- SATURDAY2.txt
- (243.86 KiB) Downloaded 433 times
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Glad it works OK now, the datalog looks much better. TPS input is nice and clean & the pulsewidths are now nice and stable too, the MAP line obviously was the problem.
Your garage is unheated? I ask as the air temp sensor seems nailed to 70.0 (degrees f I presume) but if it's minus 20c then the sensor should say so. The log reads like the ECU is seeing a fixed resistance, so there's likely a minor wiring problem there too Murray, the wiring at the ECU interface is the most likely culprit. I reckon it's just the air temp sensor side that needs checking as the coolant readings are fine for a slowly warming motor.
Minus 20 C? Brrrrrrrrrrr, feels positively warm here at zero C !
S
Your garage is unheated? I ask as the air temp sensor seems nailed to 70.0 (degrees f I presume) but if it's minus 20c then the sensor should say so. The log reads like the ECU is seeing a fixed resistance, so there's likely a minor wiring problem there too Murray, the wiring at the ECU interface is the most likely culprit. I reckon it's just the air temp sensor side that needs checking as the coolant readings are fine for a slowly warming motor.
Minus 20 C? Brrrrrrrrrrr, feels positively warm here at zero C !
S
83' GTV6, 3.0 24v supercharged
Steve yes I see what you mean about the flatlined MAT.I'll have to get on that tomorrow.Megalogviewer is certainly a usefull tool.
0C - time to put on your shorts and head to the corner for a quick pint
0C - time to put on your shorts and head to the corner for a quick pint
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Murray!
Nice work, eh!
I have fallen way behind with my MS. I am experiencing some sort of short on my board. (It was working fine before
). I have not messed with it in quite a while since I have been away from home. I am encouraged to see your project bearing fruit.
Good luck with your fine tuning.
-James
Nice work, eh!
I have fallen way behind with my MS. I am experiencing some sort of short on my board. (It was working fine before
). I have not messed with it in quite a while since I have been away from home. I am encouraged to see your project bearing fruit.Good luck with your fine tuning.
-James