What would you like to know? I have posted pictures, etc already. The actual tweaking, etc was the fun part.
Thank you for your interest in my project
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AlfaAnthony
- Silver
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:03 am
Re: Introduction
Thanks Chuck great ptoject. I didnt see anything unless i missed it somehow about the TPS you used. I saw a mention of a custom TPS but nothing else? I want to perhaps replicate it for my 3.0 Milano.
Re: Introduction
Hi AlfaAnthony,
I am alittle confused on what you need help on. You can start on page 6 of this thread to see the conversion of the plenum and the TPS. The hard part was since my Engine was from a 164 LS we needed to reposition the motor and have a custom-converted aluminium intake plenum, throttle-body inlet-neck relocated, and increased capacity for the intake-air supply per NA Glenwood Motors rep JJ. This was the hard part to get. I could of went with the 3.0L 12V from a Milano as an easier conversion but I opted for the 24V engine.
My understanding is that the 3.0l 12V Milano engine is standard option and you do not need to reposition the engine, etc to get it to fit. Therefore, why would you want to change your TPS since you can use the original plenum, and TPS, along with the original ECU from the donor Milano.
Hopefully, I am correct about the Milano's but since I own a GTV6 I could be wrong. Anyway, Phil is teaching me alot about my Alfa now so just let me know where I am misunderstanding you and I will help you to the best of my ability.
I am alittle confused on what you need help on. You can start on page 6 of this thread to see the conversion of the plenum and the TPS. The hard part was since my Engine was from a 164 LS we needed to reposition the motor and have a custom-converted aluminium intake plenum, throttle-body inlet-neck relocated, and increased capacity for the intake-air supply per NA Glenwood Motors rep JJ. This was the hard part to get. I could of went with the 3.0L 12V from a Milano as an easier conversion but I opted for the 24V engine.
My understanding is that the 3.0l 12V Milano engine is standard option and you do not need to reposition the engine, etc to get it to fit. Therefore, why would you want to change your TPS since you can use the original plenum, and TPS, along with the original ECU from the donor Milano.
Hopefully, I am correct about the Milano's but since I own a GTV6 I could be wrong. Anyway, Phil is teaching me alot about my Alfa now so just let me know where I am misunderstanding you and I will help you to the best of my ability.
Re: Introduction
I don't think cchan's car runs TPS (as in potentiometer TPS). It probably doesn't use the TPS (on-off) at all, but relies solely on MAP. That would be my guess.
Jes
Jes
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
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AlfaAnthony
- Silver
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:03 am
Re: Introduction
I thought you were running your gotech off of the TPS. Go tech can run off MAP, TPS or a combination of both.
I have been running my 12 v Milano 3.0 successfully on MAP but wanted to experiment with getting it to run on TPS. Jes was helpful to me on suggesting a potentiometer based TPS (Porsche 944 Turbo). I have installed same but can't seem to get it to run smoothly on TPS. Therefore, I figured that if you were running on TPS, you might have found a better way. The syandard Milano, GTV 6 and 164 TPS would not work on straight TPS because they are only switches that regidter throttle closed, 1/2 open and fully open. The pot type is a continuous type.
As Jes suggests, you may be running on MAP. If so, my hunt for a dtraight TPS setup with the GoTech may remain an elusive dream!
Tony
I have been running my 12 v Milano 3.0 successfully on MAP but wanted to experiment with getting it to run on TPS. Jes was helpful to me on suggesting a potentiometer based TPS (Porsche 944 Turbo). I have installed same but can't seem to get it to run smoothly on TPS. Therefore, I figured that if you were running on TPS, you might have found a better way. The syandard Milano, GTV 6 and 164 TPS would not work on straight TPS because they are only switches that regidter throttle closed, 1/2 open and fully open. The pot type is a continuous type.
As Jes suggests, you may be running on MAP. If so, my hunt for a dtraight TPS setup with the GoTech may remain an elusive dream!
Tony
Re: Introduction
Hi AR4,
Thanks for posting and I have a question for you. Just so I get my parts straight. I have the custom plenum that I needed to have so that my intake tube can stay in the correct postion as a stock GTV6. Before I can hook up to Greg Gordons Custom intake silicone elbow that connects into his custom intake tube that connects to the custom K&N style cone intake filter. I needed to attached what I thought the the throttle body part that I hook up the throttle cable to. This throttle body part has a pin to adjust the idle and also has a black plastic part that hooks up to the go tech. Is this Black plastic part considered the TPS?
Thanks for the clarification on what actually is the TPS. For sure, my Alfa is running on MAPs which I have already posted to share with the Forum. I thought that the TPS tells the Gotech ECU the position of the throttle and if I am at idle, some where between, or WOT. I know that we had a hard time getting the Alfa to idle and the adjustment pin was not the only issue. We also had to add on a cold start value and tweek the vacuum hoses for the system to work smoothly. Even though I am basically finished with my project, I am still learning new things everyday and trying to learn more technical stuff that I over looked paying attention to since I had alot of help completing this.
Thanks for posting and I have a question for you. Just so I get my parts straight. I have the custom plenum that I needed to have so that my intake tube can stay in the correct postion as a stock GTV6. Before I can hook up to Greg Gordons Custom intake silicone elbow that connects into his custom intake tube that connects to the custom K&N style cone intake filter. I needed to attached what I thought the the throttle body part that I hook up the throttle cable to. This throttle body part has a pin to adjust the idle and also has a black plastic part that hooks up to the go tech. Is this Black plastic part considered the TPS?
Thanks for the clarification on what actually is the TPS. For sure, my Alfa is running on MAPs which I have already posted to share with the Forum. I thought that the TPS tells the Gotech ECU the position of the throttle and if I am at idle, some where between, or WOT. I know that we had a hard time getting the Alfa to idle and the adjustment pin was not the only issue. We also had to add on a cold start value and tweek the vacuum hoses for the system to work smoothly. Even though I am basically finished with my project, I am still learning new things everyday and trying to learn more technical stuff that I over looked paying attention to since I had alot of help completing this.
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AlfaAnthony
- Silver
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:03 am
Re: Introduction
OK, the tps is not the throttle body itself, nor is it the pin that has the setscrew that adjusts the flap. On the original throttle body there is or was a black plastic part that told the Bosch computer the rough position of the throttle. It is mounted to the throttle body opposite the side where the throttle cable connects.
With Gotech, this part is not required if you run on MAP. If you go to thr F5 screen in Gotech there is a setting to select TPS, MAP or a 50 % 50% combination of the 2. I suspect you may not have one at all at this point and like I said, if you run straight MAP, it has no function, anyway.
Perhaps Jes could explain it clearer. If you need more help I could take a pix of mine.
Tony
With Gotech, this part is not required if you run on MAP. If you go to thr F5 screen in Gotech there is a setting to select TPS, MAP or a 50 % 50% combination of the 2. I suspect you may not have one at all at this point and like I said, if you run straight MAP, it has no function, anyway.
Perhaps Jes could explain it clearer. If you need more help I could take a pix of mine.
Tony
Re: Introduction
Cool,
Well I know that you and Jess know alot more than I do. I am hoping to met with Phil this Sat to figure out what happened to the Alternator mount, and solve this issue so that I can drive the Alfa again. Phil is an expert on Alfa's and if you need me to ask him anything please just let me know. Phil is really cool and he will most likely give me his opinions since I am lucky enough to have him sort and teach me stuff. He said that he is thinking of retiring soon so I might as well learn as much from him as possible before I am on my own accord for the maintance of my GTV6. You need to make your questions as specific as possible since most of the explaination that Phil tells me goes straight over my head and I need to write it down and really think about what he just said.
Well I know that you and Jess know alot more than I do. I am hoping to met with Phil this Sat to figure out what happened to the Alternator mount, and solve this issue so that I can drive the Alfa again. Phil is an expert on Alfa's and if you need me to ask him anything please just let me know. Phil is really cool and he will most likely give me his opinions since I am lucky enough to have him sort and teach me stuff. He said that he is thinking of retiring soon so I might as well learn as much from him as possible before I am on my own accord for the maintance of my GTV6. You need to make your questions as specific as possible since most of the explaination that Phil tells me goes straight over my head and I need to write it down and really think about what he just said.
Re: Introduction
cchan,
MAP is capitalized for Manifold Air Pressure which like TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) tells you something about how open the throttle plate is. The MAP is unrelated to the maps for fuel and ignition, except that MAP is an input parameter into the maps for fuel and ignition. Unless you have an aftermarket TPS (such as the 944 turbo) I don't think it will be the primary throttle position input for your GoTech. BTW, my 3.2 24v did not need all the hoops you seem to have to go through to get yours to run
Anyway, if your GTV6 is running well now, enjoy it - it surely looks great and has a nice bit of power 
BTW, you could ask your mechanic to explain to you what the TPS is used for (in terms of GoTech) and what TPS it is
Jes
MAP is capitalized for Manifold Air Pressure which like TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) tells you something about how open the throttle plate is. The MAP is unrelated to the maps for fuel and ignition, except that MAP is an input parameter into the maps for fuel and ignition. Unless you have an aftermarket TPS (such as the 944 turbo) I don't think it will be the primary throttle position input for your GoTech. BTW, my 3.2 24v did not need all the hoops you seem to have to go through to get yours to run
Anyway, if your GTV6 is running well now, enjoy it - it surely looks great and has a nice bit of power BTW, you could ask your mechanic to explain to you what the TPS is used for (in terms of GoTech) and what TPS it is
Jes
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
Re: Introduction
Jess,
What are the advantages to running TPS rather than MAP, or the other option of runing a 50/50 split?
What are the advantages to running TPS rather than MAP, or the other option of runing a 50/50 split?
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
Re: Introduction
You can certainly get by with just a MAP sensor. However, ideally both a TPS and MAP sensor should be used. This is because at certain throttle postions and rpm ranges manifold pressure decreases with an increase in throttle, exactly opposite of what it normally does. The TPS smooths out these transition areas, which are really very minor and normally only at very low rpm, like 1000-1500.
The TPS also allows the use of extra tuning parameters. For example you may want it to always engage the vacuum advance below a certain throttle position. Or you may always want closed loop at or below a certain throttle position, etc. Throttle position DOES NOT directly equate to manifold pressure.
I am certainly not saying you need both, I am just giving the reasoning behind using both.
Greg
The TPS also allows the use of extra tuning parameters. For example you may want it to always engage the vacuum advance below a certain throttle position. Or you may always want closed loop at or below a certain throttle position, etc. Throttle position DOES NOT directly equate to manifold pressure.
I am certainly not saying you need both, I am just giving the reasoning behind using both.
Greg
Re: Introduction
Thank you Anthony, Jess, and Greg for your information on the MAP and TPS. It is really interesting stuff. I have one more question, if my Alfa battery is drained completely will this cause the Gotech computer to lose my MAP and when I recharge the battery the Alfa will not start because of this situation?
Re: Introduction
I think you meant map, not MAP. You should not lose your map if the battery is drained as the map should be stored in a non-volatile memory (i.e. ROM). If you do lose your map, then something is wrong with your Gotech unit.
Remember MAP is an acronym for Manifold Absolute Pressure and in this case you have a MAP sensor, while map is just your fuel/ignition settings.
Remember MAP is an acronym for Manifold Absolute Pressure and in this case you have a MAP sensor, while map is just your fuel/ignition settings.
Dr. Alban
Re: Introduction
Thanks for all the input on MAP, TPS, map. We towed the Alfa today back to Phil to resolve the Alternator bracket. This will be an easy fix and he will be making an improved set up.
The Alfa does run MAP and TPS at the same time. We have a vacuum hose that runs to the Gotech ECU for the MAP sensor. Phil did convert the old Bosch TPS and made a custom one off that is a potentiometer TPS that hooks up to the Gotech ECU as well. Phil said that this tells the ECU the position of the throttle flap from closed to WOT. Phil said that he needed to do this to get the engine to idle better and perform correctly. It is not from a Porsche 944 Turbo but a 5 series BMW. We also confirmed that the Gotech setting is set for TPS and MAP at the same time.
The above is the answer to AlfaAnthony's questions on the set up for the TPS. Hopefully, the next time we pick up the Alfa it will be fully sorted with Tach, Speedo, and all the minor electrical issues resolved.
The Alfa does run MAP and TPS at the same time. We have a vacuum hose that runs to the Gotech ECU for the MAP sensor. Phil did convert the old Bosch TPS and made a custom one off that is a potentiometer TPS that hooks up to the Gotech ECU as well. Phil said that this tells the ECU the position of the throttle flap from closed to WOT. Phil said that he needed to do this to get the engine to idle better and perform correctly. It is not from a Porsche 944 Turbo but a 5 series BMW. We also confirmed that the Gotech setting is set for TPS and MAP at the same time.
The above is the answer to AlfaAnthony's questions on the set up for the TPS. Hopefully, the next time we pick up the Alfa it will be fully sorted with Tach, Speedo, and all the minor electrical issues resolved.
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AlfaAnthony
- Silver
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:03 am
Re: Introduction
That the info I was loking for. Thanks.
Great restoration!
Tony
Great restoration!
Tony