ALFAGTV6.COM

[SydneyJules]

Hi Guys,

I had the hearing for my car, which sadly, and frustratingly, returned no damages to me.

I was wondering if anyone knew of any official Alfa literature, anywhere, that specified a towing procedure for 116 GTVs?

If anyone has any idea, please PM me.

Failing this, I will be parting the car out. I can;t afford to have it fixed, so I will have to break it up and offer it all for sale.

Hope you are all well!

Cheers
J

[Mats]

I think you need to specify "towing" a bit more, here in sweden you always tow with a line and a second person in the towed vehicle but I'm guessing you mean a tow bar or similar?

[GTV27]

Typical, I can't find the manual when I want it, but I don't think there is anything out of the ordinary for towing the GTV6. There is a sturdy point to tow from on the LHS bumper mount.

Sorry about the bad news.

[SydneyJules]

Mats- GTV- the car was loaded onto a transporter (Semi-Trailer, with a double story car trailer).

It was loaded by running the tow cable under the car from front to rear, then attached to the rear tie down hook, and towed forwards, up onto the trailer.

At the company's holding yard, the car was unloaded and in the process of reloading (same procedure), the hook snapped, the car rolled down the trailer, and rear first into a truck, doing the damage.

The Consumer claims tribunal awarded no damages on the sworn oath of the owner of the transporting company, who claimed he had spoken to someone at Alfa, that there was nothing wrong with the way the car was towed, such that, the car was faulty. I had no insurance at the time. There was no written record of the conversation or a name, and I've had legal advice from a friend (willing to represent me), that if I can find some documentation stating the towing method to be incorrect, then we have a case- on multiple levels.

Any help appreciated- otherwise, I will be parting her out. A sad day that will be!

[Murray]

SJ sounds like you're having to deal with incompetance on more than one level Anybody who accepts that it is appropriate to pull a vehicle by running the tow cable the full length of the car and attaching it to the opposite end of the vehicle is going to have difficulty understanding what was done wrong here !
Here is the page from the 1983 GTV6 owner's manual that addresses towing.
From your description the cable was attached to the rear hook "C" which is located under the spare tire well.Personally I would never use this bracket to tow/pull anything as it is lightly welded to thin sheet metal.Also it is shaped in such a way that while it may be capable of pulling a light load from the rear of the car ,it will tear off if you attempt to apply tension from the opposite direction.
Surely your lawyer will be able to obtain "expert opinions" that will support your case and you will be compensated.Good luck.

[ALFA GTV6 GP]

Jules just checked my Australian issued owners manual as supplied with my '86 '87 GTV6 2,5 page 27.
The Bracket "A' has changed in design and location but this does not change your standing for a case.

The words are the same as Murray has posted.

I would be asking your lawyer mate to look at the first paragraph which states
"N.B. When towing care should be taken that the hauling regulations in effect locally be strictly adhered to.
When taking a tow,secure the rope to the right bracket A of the front bumper.

This above paragraph clearly states to secure the rope to the right bracket A front of car not rear of car lug C.

Then the manual goes on to say When taking another vehicle in tow,secure the rope to the hole in the lug C at the left underside of boot.

The above should be enough to get a ruling in your favour if not contact Alfa Romeo Australia and as for there taking a tow procedures.Not to be confused with towing another vehicle or taking another vehicle in tow.

The two possible reasons I see why tow truck driver would incorrectly use the rear hook.
1. If your car has been lowered( when connecting the cable to the front right bracket A and attempting to tow the car up onto the double story car trailer the cable clashes with the front bumper due to the incline )The operator may have attempted this and incorrectly chose to use the rear lug C.

2. Or if your front right A bracket was broken.

3. The operator is a wanker and should have secured a second rope for safe practice.

John

[MR2 Zig]

the car was fine when turned over to the transporter....the car is now damaged....the damage occured while under the transporter's care.....the transporter needs to fix the car.....it doesn't matter how the damage happened or why, only that it happened while the transporter had it.



hth

[MD]

jules,

All good positive comments above which should helpfull :-

Some questions that your legal representative should ask before at any hearing:-

1 How many vehicles of this exact type has the transporter moved in this way and located on the upper deck?
2 On what basis was the decision made to load by attaching towing cable to the rear
3 Where was this infomation sought and who was the party that gave it
4 What measures did the operator take to confirm/verify that the informaton obtained was correct and that no mistake was made in providing the information.
5 If advice was given to tow the vehicle at the rear, why was the vehicle not towed backwards up the ramps as instructed thereby making use of the towing point in the manner that it was designed to perform

Mate, I got a dozen more but you get the idea. Basically you are challenging the operator's procedures and skills as clearly it is an operator error.

As MR2 Zig says, you are not really interested in how it happened or why it happened, the fact is that it happened whilst under the care and responsibility of the operator.

Pay up arsehole !!

[SydneyJules]

It is all very appreciated, gents!

May I add one thing, that has been a bit of a barrier to it all:

The car was transported by a car transporter not a tow truck, and in New South Wales (backward bunch we are), there is no regulatory body governing transporters, and the Tow Truck Authority (main roads offshoot) doesn't deal with them in their charter- it is effectively unregulated.

There was no condition report provided, I was never phoned to be informed of the damage, rather, a week later I called them, and the car was left out the front of my mechanic's shop over the weekend, with the key on the front tyre, and he never signed for it. I will not post the name of the company up, but I advise anyone along the eastern seaboard to contact me before having a car transported.

Yes, I know there is a breach of duty of care, but this has all been decided in their favour, by a consumer claims tribunal obviously wanting to wash their hands of the matter.

I don't know whether that info. will suffice, but I greatly appreciate it.

I will endeavour to get hold of someone at Alfa that may have knowledge of the old cars....

Thanks again, getns

[Mats]

the car was fine when turned over to the transporter....the car is now damaged....the damage occured while under the transporter's care.....the transporter needs to fix the car.....it doesn't matter how the damage happened or why, only that it happened while the transporter had it.

hth

Exactly.

No one in their right mind would tow a car forward while connected to the rear tow point. That piece of information right there should be enough to rule in your favour Jules.
Sounds like the guy (or gal) never gave a f*ck what happened to your car.

[Terafrost]

Man, my strongest sympathies go out to you and fingers are most certainly crossed for a positive outcome.

Now I must apologise for moving off topic slightly, but it does become relevant - promise!

I just had a car sent down from Sydney to Hobart and upon arrival, checked over the condition report etc. One thing I noted was that the car was listed as being in very poor condition at the time of pickup in Sydney ("Car in beyond poor cond., too much damage"). What gets me, is that the car is very good condition, aside from a few small paint inconsistencies and a slightly cracked front bumper.

Now call me crazy, but this sounds to me like the moving company trying to cover their own backsides in situations where they would otherwise be liable for any damage caused. Think of the old "Oh... It was like that when we got it..." approach eh? Either way, the first thing I saw on the car when it arrived was a lovely big "let's key this one!" stripe down the drivers side, about half a meter long (pr***s!).

Now I'm not saying that the shipping company was at fault, as the car was bought sight unseen so damage could not be fully assessed (call me crazy again if you wish...). All I'm saying is that they could successfully have avoidedd liability in a case that would have otherwise been pretty much black and white. What's worse is that from what I've heard, this is not an entirely uncommon practise. So BEWARE THE ASSESSOR - all it takes is a dodgy condition report such as the one mentioned above to turn a simple transport into a nightmare situation like poor Jules here has had to endure.

So a possible combination of incompetence and laziness may be the culprit here? Either way, next time I think I'll be driving it down myself!

As was stated, best to check company names/details/reputation etc before booking!

P.S. If anybody knows where I can find a touch up stick or similar for Grigio Chiaro metallic for an 85 gtv6 - point away!

[fortom]

Any decent paint shop will be able to mix the colour if you have the code. Got a bottle made up for mine a year ago.
Tom

[mjr]

Jules, was an engineers report provided before the ruling was reached in favour of these assssss holes? Any competent engineer,
unless utterly brain dead will see that the rear hook is strong in the direction it is designed for, ie to tow another behind it. Any one can see
that pulling on that bracket in a forward direction will crush the spare wheel well and tear off the bracket. I bet the winch they used also applied a sudden jolt of tourque, for which that bracket is not designed to take in the wrong direction. As a transporter operator, they dont need special advice from a dealer to tell them that.!! i would state your intention to litigate further, but get yourself an idependant engineer report first, confirming that the tow hook design is not faulty, rather was missused.

Sworn or not, Unless they can prove with sworn affedavid from said alfa dealer, that they saught advice, the oath is worth nothing!! Your lawyer needs a damn kick up the ass, hes fobbing you off!!. You need to get nasty, otherwise you wont get zip. Kick your lawyer up the back side..

[MR2 Zig]

I would sue any lawyer for malpractice if he let this transporter win.

[GarthW]

Hey Jules i have just noticed this thread, and read everyones posts, and my heart goes out to you mate.
I cant believe they are trying to wipe their hands from this, and yeah your lawyer is an idiot. Basically at the end of the day,
the transporter is liable, the end, full stop.

You have a case no matter what, and i have never heard of anyone having a car towed in the manner in which they did it,
disgusting, i cant believe it




Best of luck to you. Hope you win, which i know you will.