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Maurizio · Post by **Maurizio** » Wed May 11, 2005 5:54 am

Aaargh wrote a comment and its gone,

Short version:
Mats, never tought there would be a propper oil film between the whole piston length and liner. Always thought the oil between ring 1 (topring) and 2 had to do the trick, the top ring would scrape oil to prevent getting in the combustion room. So best oil film, when going down, between top ring and ring 2.

Yep, Shorter con rod is higher side forces

Oil film: Scary when you think about starting an engine after some weeks\months....

Jim K · Post by **Jim K** » Wed May 11, 2005 5:58 am

Look who's talking about thread hijacking!

Can you guys take your notes back to the Physics lab? If not, you chose the wrong piston to study....you wanna learn something, check out the construction of an M3 Evo (2500cc) piston, NOT an Alfa one!

(You had that one coming, heheh!

)
Jim K.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Wed May 11, 2005 6:17 am

Hey, still on topic, We're discussing the different rod lengths between the TS engines.

You and your BMW worship...

The top two rings deal with compression only, the third does the oil control thing. Oil is a very difficult thing, I doubt there will be full-film lubrication between the liners and rings when the piston moves upwards or at TDC (piston standing still momentarily), good thing they add all those anti-wear additives.

Alfaross69 · Post by **Alfaross69** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:22 am

Mats ,
Did you see the thread at Alfa BB on activating the V V T by JIM K. on Weber carbed models of the TS by a made it up yourself electronics box ? No schematic though.
Ross

Alfaross69 · Post by **Alfaross69** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:36 am

Maurizio wrote:
Oil film: Scary when you think about starting an engine after some weeks\months....

ACCUSUMP! although it doesn't really get to walls for awhile does it ?,oh well.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:33 pm

Alfaross69 wrote:Mats ,
Did you see the thread at Alfa BB on activating the V V T by JIM K. on Weber carbed models of the TS by a made it up yourself electronics box ? No schematic though.
Ross

Nope. Couldn't care less actually, carbs and standard cams sounds like a good way to mix less Hp with worse driveability to me.

Is anybody actually building a TS engine?

Maurizio · Post by **Maurizio** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:03 am

Is anybody actually building a TS engine?

I am

slowly but there is some work done in the background. (Lightening crank, flywheel ...)

Hmm found my way to the AlfaBB also:
T/S hp Vs 2000 hp Interesting stuff

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:28 am

Yeah, but I don't think you will get 2000Hp out of that TS lump easily...

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:41 am

Yep,
sloooowly the engine is taking shape. 2000 hp is out of the question but 210-220 is our goal.

Plans so far:
Lightened crank
Lightened and shot peened con rods. Either TS or Nord depending on the compression we get with the Venolia pistons we have.
Ported head (what a surprise)
46 mm intake valves.
DTA fool injection + distributorless ingition
New intake, either 4x48 mm TB or single 70 mm with resonating plenum.
4-1 exhaust
"lumpy" cams

and some other mods I forgot or don't need mentioning.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:24 am

DTA fool injection? What the heck is that? Piggyback?
Sounds interesting, larger valves is a lot of work I imagine or do you just enlarge the std seat? Re-angled intake to match the head?

enzo · Post by **enzo** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:52 am

http://www.dtafast.co.uk/

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:28 am

I know about DTA injection, it was the "fool" part that is confusing me...

Jim K · Post by **Jim K** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:54 am

Boy, am I tempted...!
A fool and his injection are soon parted, the saying goes, heheh!
Micke, 4x48mm throats is out of the question for EFI. Consider 4x45 as the max for 2liters for any rpm. Its not equivalent to carbs, where you have the throat/venturi relationship!
Jim K.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:58 am

Also TWM does not make 48mm TBs for engines with our small c/c distance between cyl #2 and #3, only 40, 42 and 45 are available as "2910".

http://twminduction.com/ThrottleBody/Th ... 00-FR.html

Wouldn't a 42mm tb's support all the air we could possibly use? No need to give away driveability just to get a few Hp up at 8K IMO.
What airspeed is acceptable before the engine starts to choke? 0.3MACH?

Jim K · Post by **Jim K** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:11 am

Mats, Micke, Maurizio, we got a problem here. 40 years ago, a gas speed of 160fps (feet/second) was considered a limit beyond which pumping losses became excessive. 10 years ago, 230fps was a good value for a racing engine. The TS with std valve at 7500 has 265!!! The 230 figure corresponds to 6500rpm!!! With a 46mm valve, 230 is reached at 7100rpm! 230fps is Mach0,2!
Yet, current AR 2liter Nords can make power at 7500 with big valves, meaning 240+fps, M0,21.
Current advanced automotive theory books, state that you can go to M0,6 (!!!) before VE starts taking a downward turn! Want a laugh? you know what this is for the TS with std valves? 18,000rpm

I think I'll stick to the flowbench, I'm too old for this advanced stuff!
So far, it hasn't lied to me and results and conclusions are very close to those of other people doing this kind of work.
So, to get back to the TS, 46mm is good with the highest CR you can get, good headers+exhaust, 45mm TB's and 300* 12+mm cams with about 270* at "1,25mm. Tailor the advance curve and you got a killer plant! (Provided the bottom-end is A-1).
Jim K.

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Activating the VVT electronically on Weber carbed TS models

oil film

Re: Activating the VVT electronically on Weber carbed TS mod