ALFAGTV6.COM

AlfaTipo · Post by **AlfaTipo** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 am

I have a GTV6 that I really need to get through emmisions (Oregon, USA).

Has Shankle cams, local Alfa guy (Nasko) says I need to swap cams to get it to pass.

Will any year (stock) cams work in an 85?

If I got 164S cams would thay pass OK? What ECU/AFM mods work best?

Thanks,

Andrew.b · Post by **Andrew.b** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:49 am

164s cams should be fine

What mods are you thinking of with the ecu? emmisions or power?

AlfaTipo · Post by **AlfaTipo** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:46 pm

Andrew, thanks for the reply.

My thought is best power option if I go with the 164S cams. However, as I may get some stock cams for a good price I may get them just to have this puppy on th road.

I live in NW USA and the action doesn't stop like it did in the NE. Plenty of track and driver ed events that I wan to get into. The other GTV6 is not really in such great condition that I would be happy throwing it around the track.

However, I am now thinking 24V but sticking with 2.5 liters. Why you may ask? I like the rev happy 2.5. I'm also a contrarian. I am looking at the 156 motor that I believe is overall better; especially the timing belt routing.

Off this topic a little but, do you have any idea on the weight differentials with 3.0, 3.7 mills compared to the 2.5?

Thanks again.

P.Webb · Post by **P.Webb** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:55 pm

The 164S cams should pass emissions no problem.

Do you have the AL6216 cams? I'm running them too.

Nasty idle. Before the programmable I couldn't get them to idle under 1200rpm on the L-Jet. My test is due in April so I'll lean it out and hope for the best.

I have a set of 'S' cams on the way just in case.

I'm really curious about the power curve of the Shankle 8L vs. the 'S' cams. With the high overlap of the AL6216 it screams at 4500+ RPM. Nothing down low and plenty of plenum reversion. Even if the 'S' cams don't make as much overall power, it would be nice to have a smooth idle and power in a lower range.

Please post back your power band impressions of the 'S' cams vs. the Shankles.

BTW, the AL6126 cams are 9.5mm lift, 294 duration. SCCA cheater cams because they can't really be measured by the tech inspectors trackside.

-Peter

Murray · Post by **Murray** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:14 pm

Peter,
If you follow this link you'll see a posting of my dyno results with a basically stock 2.5L with "S" cams.I was certainly pleased with the results.

http://www.alfagtv6.com/discus/messages ... 1096497458

By the way this car passed California emissions easily prior to my buying it configured the way it is.

P.Webb · Post by **P.Webb** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:19 pm

Those are some pretty good numbers for a stock 2.5.

My car isn't exactly stock

http://home.comcast.net/~webb.p/install

I was more curious about the trouser-seat dyno differences in the 'S' vs. the Shankles. The Shankle is a semi-race cam that makes great power but has some unpleasant side effects that are tough on a street car.

-Peter

Murray · Post by **Murray** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:36 pm

Peter,
Thats one nasty looking beast you've put together ! Please just stay away from the tracks I run on

I have enough problems with Civics on steroids !

AlfaTipo · Post by **AlfaTipo** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:52 pm

Peter, you are so right. Great from 4500 but it still has the stock cutoff. Power doesn't stop comig, I was always running out of revs. 1800 rpm power band sucks. Sounds wonderful. It has the Shankle headers, stock cat and back.

Murry's 164S dyno run is really good. What is stock whp/torque? I seem to remember the stock numbers being similar. A better comparison would be stock to 164S, especially seat o'the pants.

P.Webb · Post by **P.Webb** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:10 pm

I have an aftermarket programmable. Escapes the rev limit and totally tunable. Finally got an ok idle @ 900rpm.

I can work the fueling to get through an emissions test I hope.

Maybe you could consider an aftermarket instead of swapping the cams. The speed/density system I use does away with the AFM restriction as well as the rev limiter. Also has the flexiblity to add spark control. You can start with fuel only and add spark later.

See the MegaSquirt forum on this site. We have a lot of cars running now. Take a look at Steve Rossers install document and some of my ramblings on tuning.

-Peter

P.Webb · Post by **P.Webb** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:14 pm

Take a peek at these:

http://home.comcast.net/~webb.p/megasquirt
http://www.alfagtv6.com/MegaSquirt/Megasquirt.htm
http://www.alfagtv6.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=21

Post by **Zamani** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:24 pm

Maybe you need bigger headers. Shankle headers have tiny primaries. Like ... less than 1.5" (which is already small!)

AlfaTipo · Post by **AlfaTipo** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:41 pm

Zamani, interesting idea.

I have seen a few posts about primary size. Given that you have 6x1.5" into a 2-2 1/4" pipe is the 1.5" an issue?

Smaller diameter equates to higher velocity (less back pressure?). Could slower velocity (larger diameter) improve emmisions?

Buggered if I know.

I also like Peter's idea of alternate management. Peter, how tough are emmisions where you are?

AlfaTipo · Post by **AlfaTipo** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:06 pm

Peter, I checked out the MegaSquirt. Looks really interesting.

Given S cams run $5-700 and barely make a difference it could be the way to go.

However, I may go back to stock cams, get through emmisions, setup MS then plug the Shankles back in and take a run through emmisions again.

MerrilGordon · Post by **MerrilGordon** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:23 pm

Say AlfaTipo,

How often do you have to do emissions in Portland ? It's every other year in Washington. Although a hassle, if it's every other year in Oregon you could swap in stock cams, run through emissions, then swap back.

The MegaSquirt like Peter Webb is using sounds like a great solution, although I wonder if it will be able to sneak past state emissions with such lumpy cams.

Merril

AlfaTipo · Post by **AlfaTipo** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:49 am

Merril,

That is an option although I prefer to run as close to environmental responsibility as much as possible but my mores can allow an awful lot of leeway.

Every two years in Oregon so it is not a real hassle given that a timing belt change/tensioner rebuild could make sense as well.

Whereabouts in Washington are you?

Jef

Are all GTV6 12V cams the same?