engine tear down

User avatar
x-rad
Verde
Verde
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:21 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio, USA

ALL IS WELL.....ALLL IS WELL

Post by x-rad » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:44 pm

Hey hey there!! My father and I spent a few hours working on the Alfa. Finally found the engine hesitation problem. After thousands of dollars , a new rebuilt engine, almost all new ignitionj system, and countless hours...the problem ended up being.,................................................. drumroll please . .....................................................FREE rust particles and a 99 cent piece of plastic


Yep...all that shit n hassle and all it ended up being was a little rusty in the bottom 1 inch of the tank making enough tiny particles to clog the INTANK (which I never knew about) filter

I also removed the one way aluminum valve just before the injector manifold and wired up a fuel pump relay.

At least for the 1985 model year, there is a nylon mesh filter in the tank. doing a real thorough net search, I found that many other Alfa years also have in-tank filters and there are many people with my same problem.....

If you have not cleaned this out and you have hesitation, I posted some pics on how to do it. I really did not feel like resealing the tank and stripping everything out of the inside since only about 1 inch on the bottom had very light rust...but enough particles came out to clog everything!!

SO. before doing anything...get a fire extinguisher ready and remove the battery (remove it so that you don't accidentally short the tank on it when taking the tank out of the trunk).

I drained out the gas through the tank outlet hose so that it was filtered (about 10 gallons in my case...and I only kept this gas after confirming that the IN tank filter was indeed still intact).

undo the charcoal and filler hose clamps, undo the wiring, undo the band clamps (which jusdt unhook when loose enough)

jack up the car and support well.

You will need long socket extension , 17mm short socket 6point, 32mm socket 6 point, and 1 1/16 socket or equivalent.

you can leave the hoses attached to the banjo's under the tank. Just remove the Banjo bolt to the return fitting (the smaller one)...and then remove the drain banjo bolt. With some effort, you can gently pry the tank out. When you get it out far enough, undo the breather clamp (on in reverse in my case)

I left the 32 mm nut in the bottom of the drain outlet because it was hard to undo under the car. Once the tank was out, I had more leverage and off it came. This 32mm nut was attached to the nylon in tank filter.

I decided to cut off the in tank filter and replace with an external 1/2 inch filter from NAPA auto parts. This will be easier to change in the future.

So now take that empty tank and fill it with a gallon of acetone. swish and drain. then repeat. this really cleaned the metal. Some rust remained but it was very minimal. I hooke up my shop vac in reverse to push air through tank for 2 hours. This really dried everything out...because you don't want acetone in the fuel system!! If it was warmer out, I might have washed tank out with water and then the shop vac thing... YOU SHOULD SEE THE PICS OF THE FINE RUST CLOGGING UP EVERYTHING

Installation is the reverse of above...BUT i gently filed flat the old copper washers for the banjo bolts and resealed these fittings with a fuel proof sealant (brown stuff from NAPA)

final step was to install new external filter..see pics.

I reused the old gas because I knew it was new and filtered...and I did not have anything else. Added 5 ounces of stabilizer and some more fuel antifreeze anit water additive.

started right up and the pump was humming like it used to!!! took her for a ride in the snow with some looong burnouts...NO NO NO hesitations any more!!!!

I guess Christmas can come early!!!

PICS NOT REALLY IN ORDER
Attachments
IMG_2892.JPG
poor flow 20 min later
IMG_2892.JPG (110.6 KiB) Viewed 3700 times
IMG_2891.JPG
poor flow
IMG_2891.JPG (104.59 KiB) Viewed 3701 times
IMG_2895.JPG
at other end of 32mm nut, with some dirt
IMG_2895.JPG (111.93 KiB) Viewed 3702 times
IMG_2893.JPG
32mm nut
IMG_2893.JPG (234.18 KiB) Viewed 3703 times
IMG_2894.JPG
tank out...found some loose change and some shock nuts
IMG_2894.JPG (104.79 KiB) Viewed 3704 times
Last edited by x-rad on Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
x-rad
Verde
Verde
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:21 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio, USA

Post by x-rad » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:03 pm

more pics....


OK ...I was just wondering where the hell were all you members on this one....first one to mention the in-tank filter was GG(a week ago)...and even then, I have been bitchin about this problem for months!!!

:wink: :D :D

Just kidding..it is part of the fun trying to figure this stuff out..THANKS EVERYONE for your input!! Now as soon as the foot of snow melts, I will go for a long ride!!
Attachments
IMG_2901.JPG
new out of tank pre pump filter
IMG_2901.JPG (89.88 KiB) Viewed 3699 times
IMG_2899.JPG
reinstalled banjo's
IMG_2899.JPG (142.64 KiB) Viewed 3700 times
IMG_2897.JPG
I cut off the in-tank filter and smoothed the edges. I left some of the plastic in the nut because the nut is alloy and I did not want to screw it up...
IMG_2897.JPG (69.42 KiB) Viewed 3700 times
IMG_2896.JPG
look at this pile of fine rust crap...three more full ass wipes where this came from... No wonder she ran like shit
IMG_2896.JPG (187.08 KiB) Viewed 3700 times
User avatar
fedezyl
Verde
Verde
Posts: 645
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:45 pm
Location: Montevideo, Uruguay

Post by fedezyl » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:29 pm

I had the same problem on my 33, only I had not much of a hesitation but more like a very noisy fuel pump that ended up giving up....glad you fixed it!!! :D
User avatar
ar4me
Verde
Verde
Posts: 645
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:55 am
Location: Southern California

Post by ar4me » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:33 pm

Congrats on getting the hesitation resolved!

Suppose it isn't for sale anymore :wink:

Anyone knows if the Milanos have the same filter? One would think they do...

Jes
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
User avatar
x-rad
Verde
Verde
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:21 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio, USA

Post by x-rad » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:48 pm

yep..still for sale..but now I am really firm on the price!

by the way...US 1/2 inch fuel line fits perfectly from tank to pump
SlewofDamascus
Gold
Gold
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:46 pm

Post by SlewofDamascus » Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:47 pm

Congrats, X-Rad. That has to be one gigantic weight off of your shoulders.

I think everyone who owns a GTV-6 should have a red cell phone with only one number - a hotline to GG!

Keep the GTV-6, X-Rad!!!!!

David
1986 GTV-6
undergoing "renovation"
at undisclosed location
User avatar
GregoryV
Platinum
Platinum
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:43 am
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Post by GregoryV » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:15 pm

Wow - that much stuff was in there :shock: !! That is down right scarey - the tank is one of the few things I haven't messed with on my car ... maybe it's near time to do so - 5-star info. thanks!

GV
20-Years-3-Motors-Later
User avatar
x-rad
Verde
Verde
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:21 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio, USA

Post by x-rad » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:46 pm

I am not sure it was all from my tank...maybe I got the bottom of the barrel at the service station???
MR2 Zig
Verde
Verde
Posts: 766
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:47 pm
Location: Fresno, Ca.
Contact:

Post by MR2 Zig » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:01 pm

x-rad,

You probably got a combo deal there....some water in the gas from the station and some condensation from sitting and time.

Glad you found the problem!!!!

scott
User avatar
x-rad
Verde
Verde
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:21 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio, USA

F'n good luck stikes again

Post by x-rad » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:17 pm

Well, just as things seem to being going well again, after filling the tank up 3/4th and letting it sit in the garage after an hour long ride, my wife tells me about this gas smell.

So i go out and check everything in the garage and there is this little puddle of gas under the tank. Turns out there is a tiny drip coming from the aluminum bung copper washer area from teh 'in-tank' filter. Damn!

So I drained the tank again. removed it, cleaned off all my sealant and really polished the washers and falttened every mating surface as good as possible.

Tips on reclaiming copper washers below using knife honing stone (probably 2-300 grit on one side and 3-400 grit on other) makes washers very flat and shiny...like new.

But then on assembly with a little PTFE sealant, I found out what the leak was really from...tiny cracks in the 'in-tank' filter housing sealing rim which just fell right off when i tightened it to the tank. F**K ME!

Sunday evening...no chance in getting anything for a week with the holildays, wife screaming about the freakin gas smell....eeeeesh

I almost threw a match into the whole thing.

I AM SO PISSED THAT NOW MY ALFA IS UP FOR SALE ON EBAY! FOR LESS!
Attachments
IMG_2922.JPG
bits of the compression rim just fell off , part Fispa 306002

Anybody have a spare??
IMG_2922.JPG (84.25 KiB) Viewed 3373 times
IMG_2921.JPG
IMG_2921.JPG (67.76 KiB) Viewed 3374 times
IMG_2920.JPG
IMG_2920.JPG (73.18 KiB) Viewed 3373 times
IMG_2916.JPG
IMG_2916.JPG (87.95 KiB) Viewed 3372 times
IMG_2913.JPG
IMG_2913.JPG (102.49 KiB) Viewed 3372 times
User avatar
PietereQ
Platinum
Platinum
Posts: 463
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:53 am
Location: PL/NL

Post by PietereQ » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:40 pm

I had the same thing; thought I have reasembled all tank plumbing tight, but started to drip (1l/24h) Dissasembled the whole crap again, smoothened the washers and sufraces, applied the silicon sealant and assembled again and no problemo! Too bad to hear the sealing rim broke, from what I was told exposure to salt/climate dramatically weakens it (vide alternator mounts on 145/146). Baybe these can be fabricated in a good machine shop?
User avatar
x-rad
Verde
Verde
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:21 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio, USA

Post by x-rad » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:39 pm

there is a pipe fitting shop right down the street that has many metric sized adaptors...I think I can find something to fit, but I am worried about sealing the edge on the tank fitting.

I just don't have time to find a machine shop at the moment....

If the car does not sell...i will try this approach

Also, there is Trail Auto Alfa parts two towns over, and the owner might have something....
MR2 Zig
Verde
Verde
Posts: 766
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:47 pm
Location: Fresno, Ca.
Contact:

Post by MR2 Zig » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:43 pm

x-rad,

let me see if I can cut metric thread on my lathe at work....If i can i'll make you one out of 316 stainless.

scott
User avatar
Barry
Verde
Verde
Posts: 1993
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 1:21 am

Post by Barry » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:07 am

Well,I must admit.I saw the filter and was surprised..Went out and checked tanks that I have loose here..2 without filters and one with..
No I also know.. :oops: :oops:
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
User avatar
x-rad
Verde
Verde
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:21 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio, USA

Post by x-rad » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:48 pm

OK... I am happy again! Man..this GTV6 makes me manic /depressive..like a girlfriend you always fight with but is great in the sack!

THANKS to DEAN R. at Trail Auto

http://www.trailalfa.com/

He had one. I took the Alfa off ebay today. Not for sale anymore. Sorry to disappoint anyone. I just really like the car too much and I have too much time invested. Plus no one bid.....luckily.

New nylon filter pops right out and will be saved.

MORE TIPS: I forgot to mention that after smoothing the copper rings on the stone, they have to be annealed. I just use a MAP gas torch and guesstimate ~800C (copper glows red). Don't melt the ring, they are hard to find!!

This allows the copper to move into a semi fluid state in which the crystalline dislocations(from prior compression) can once again line up. In other words, makes it soft again and good for gasket work.

Let it cool down slow, but clean off the oxidation before using with emory cloth. A little TFE or PTFE will seal the rest.


THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HELPED ME THROUGH THIS DIFFICULT TIME (ESPECIALLY 2ZIG AND GG AND CHRIS FROM NEW YORK) :D :D :D
Attachments
tank filter.JPG
tank filter.JPG (80.22 KiB) Viewed 3233 times
Post Reply