Z,
So why do you like the Rotrex charger?
Supercharging the 12v & 24v V6
Andrew b
Any chance of fitting either in the "V". Obviously no room for intercooler then, but instead very compact. Seems like it could be a nice clean design with minimal plumbing, but lots of customization...
Jes
Jes
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
hi, i have seen the only sc autodelta sz and spoken to the owner!
he's a very nice man.
jano used his car as a guiny pig and always there were some troubles .
he raised the fuel pressure because he didn't want to use bigger injectors(i think the original injectors are to small for 270 hp even with higher fuel pressure)
the rotrex blower is centrifugal and it's only advantage is it's size!
use lysholm or eaton;they deliver full pressure at about 1000 rpm(engine)
the rotrex will give you full pressure at about 4000 rpm.
lysholm is the best, but very expensive!!
i bought greg's set ,it is best hp for the money!!
I HOPE????
he's a very nice man.
jano used his car as a guiny pig and always there were some troubles .
he raised the fuel pressure because he didn't want to use bigger injectors(i think the original injectors are to small for 270 hp even with higher fuel pressure)
the rotrex blower is centrifugal and it's only advantage is it's size!
use lysholm or eaton;they deliver full pressure at about 1000 rpm(engine)
the rotrex will give you full pressure at about 4000 rpm.
lysholm is the best, but very expensive!!
i bought greg's set ,it is best hp for the money!!
I HOPE????
hi,i still can't tell you more!
the supercharger must be on it's way from the states.
this can take some time and the instalation will take place in oktober or november!after driving season....
sorry...but i 'll post pictures during instalation.
i can show the instalation of my seats right now!
brake upgrade from movit,germany did NOT fit!!
and they are untill now NOT willing to do anything about that.
SO PEOPLE:DON'T USE MOVIT BRAKES!!
the supercharger must be on it's way from the states.
this can take some time and the instalation will take place in oktober or november!after driving season....
sorry...but i 'll post pictures during instalation.
i can show the instalation of my seats right now!
brake upgrade from movit,germany did NOT fit!!
and they are untill now NOT willing to do anything about that.
SO PEOPLE:DON'T USE MOVIT BRAKES!!
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RZ
The car lives only 5 min's from me in London!
I've been 'on track' with the supercharged SZ (autodelta), It was fairly dissapointing to see that it had a hard job powering past my gtv6 3.0 down the straights, and even out the corners!!
I think they struggled with this car for some time, including changing the s'charger for a larger model, as it was not producing good torque.
I think Gregs kit would be much better bet, as the Eaton charger is the positive displacement type.
However for the larger 3.5/3.7 24v engine, it could work very well, as they alreadly have plenty of low down torque. Running just .3 bar boost at the top end will lift the engine perfectly, without having to worry about TOO much grunt at low revs.
I believe Autodelta have now used a rotrex charger with low boost on a 3.7, and achieved over 400 hp, on standard internals (only forged 101mm Arias pistons) read expensive!
The car lives only 5 min's from me in London!
I've been 'on track' with the supercharged SZ (autodelta), It was fairly dissapointing to see that it had a hard job powering past my gtv6 3.0 down the straights, and even out the corners!!
I think they struggled with this car for some time, including changing the s'charger for a larger model, as it was not producing good torque.
I think Gregs kit would be much better bet, as the Eaton charger is the positive displacement type.
However for the larger 3.5/3.7 24v engine, it could work very well, as they alreadly have plenty of low down torque. Running just .3 bar boost at the top end will lift the engine perfectly, without having to worry about TOO much grunt at low revs.
I believe Autodelta have now used a rotrex charger with low boost on a 3.7, and achieved over 400 hp, on standard internals (only forged 101mm Arias pistons) read expensive!
rz wrote:hi, i have seen the only sc autodelta sz and spoken to the owner!
he's a very nice man.
jano used his car as a guiny pig and always there were some troubles .
he raised the fuel pressure because he didn't want to use bigger injectors(i think the original injectors are to small for 270 hp even with higher fuel pressure)
the rotrex blower is centrifugal and it's only advantage is it's size!
use lysholm or eaton;they deliver full pressure at about 1000 rpm(engine)
the rotrex will give you full pressure at about 4000 rpm.
lysholm is the best, but very expensive!!
i bought greg's set ,it is best hp for the money!!
I HOPE????
Andrew b
-
SydneyJules
- Verde
- Posts: 619
- Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:57 pm
- Location: Sydney
While once a big fan of the Centri blowers, Im realising now that the top end gain is all you get from them. With the cost of a top end Centri blower, you could nearly pay for turbos and pipework, and have the same boost figure as a peak centri. halfway down the rev range!
They are fine in the world of bolt on performance and overstated dyno figures, like the US based BMW scene (Im not having a go at US performance stuff guys, just my example!). PLenty of guys in various motoring circles stateside on chat sites are claiming 700hp @ the wheels with a 12 sec timeslip and below 130mph terminal, running slicks with dropped pipes. The HP is certainly not finding it's way out at the track- ie it's some idiot pleasing his customer by manipulating dyno outputs! 700hp ATW should be finding a near on 140mph top end, regardless of gearing! Yet the guys at top level drag stuff stateside err on the conservative side of their power output claims, and run the times. Something is being misplaced between those at the track and those living a fast and furious dream. It's just the latter seem to proliferate!
I certainly dont like the idea of a belt driven blower pumping anything more than 10psi into an engine revving to certainly no more than 7k rpm. And without going into the size of these blowers, many of the guys claiming the power they are with the things is just stupid!! No way on earth they can flow the HP they are meant to be turning!
As for A/D- the fact that a blown 3.0 is struggling to get past a 3.0 out of corners is saying something about the way they are doing things. What happened to all of this Blower torque from down low? Sure they may have it sorted now, but I can only imagine what a T/turbo 24v with the same money spent on it as an Autodelta blower kit would yield. Greg has pointed out on his site that turbos have the heat problem (of course @ 120k rpm they do!), and perhaps many of the snails doing the rounds aren't as cutting edge in their aerodynamics, but the fastest cars around still have them! Having sampled all from turbo fours, twin turbo sixes, turbo rotaries to blown fours, sixes and eights, I still reckon a turbo brings the best bang for your buck!
What Greg has done by bringing F/I to the Alfa V6 crowd is the best bang for your buck Alfa alternative I have seen around, and with fiddling, can be made even better. No one wants to jump in and make 15 sets of pipework and turbo manifolds four Nords or TS's because people are scared of making the leap. Moreso, Greg's near factory fit up is testimony to the amount of work he has put into it. He himself acknowledges his kit's limitations, and stresses that its not the be all and end all. A turbo "kit" could be done and done reasonably, but there is something easier about a blower and some belts!
Yet while A/D have some great looking cars and stuff coming out the shop, I feel that the stuff is slightly on the F and the F side of things!
Z- stop stuffing around, get Greg's kit, and do all the stuff to make it that little bit better, that you know will make your car a microwave rice steamer!!
They are fine in the world of bolt on performance and overstated dyno figures, like the US based BMW scene (Im not having a go at US performance stuff guys, just my example!). PLenty of guys in various motoring circles stateside on chat sites are claiming 700hp @ the wheels with a 12 sec timeslip and below 130mph terminal, running slicks with dropped pipes. The HP is certainly not finding it's way out at the track- ie it's some idiot pleasing his customer by manipulating dyno outputs! 700hp ATW should be finding a near on 140mph top end, regardless of gearing! Yet the guys at top level drag stuff stateside err on the conservative side of their power output claims, and run the times. Something is being misplaced between those at the track and those living a fast and furious dream. It's just the latter seem to proliferate!
I certainly dont like the idea of a belt driven blower pumping anything more than 10psi into an engine revving to certainly no more than 7k rpm. And without going into the size of these blowers, many of the guys claiming the power they are with the things is just stupid!! No way on earth they can flow the HP they are meant to be turning!
As for A/D- the fact that a blown 3.0 is struggling to get past a 3.0 out of corners is saying something about the way they are doing things. What happened to all of this Blower torque from down low? Sure they may have it sorted now, but I can only imagine what a T/turbo 24v with the same money spent on it as an Autodelta blower kit would yield. Greg has pointed out on his site that turbos have the heat problem (of course @ 120k rpm they do!), and perhaps many of the snails doing the rounds aren't as cutting edge in their aerodynamics, but the fastest cars around still have them! Having sampled all from turbo fours, twin turbo sixes, turbo rotaries to blown fours, sixes and eights, I still reckon a turbo brings the best bang for your buck!
What Greg has done by bringing F/I to the Alfa V6 crowd is the best bang for your buck Alfa alternative I have seen around, and with fiddling, can be made even better. No one wants to jump in and make 15 sets of pipework and turbo manifolds four Nords or TS's because people are scared of making the leap. Moreso, Greg's near factory fit up is testimony to the amount of work he has put into it. He himself acknowledges his kit's limitations, and stresses that its not the be all and end all. A turbo "kit" could be done and done reasonably, but there is something easier about a blower and some belts!
Yet while A/D have some great looking cars and stuff coming out the shop, I feel that the stuff is slightly on the F and the F side of things!
Z- stop stuffing around, get Greg's kit, and do all the stuff to make it that little bit better, that you know will make your car a microwave rice steamer!!
Fixing it bit by bit....
On my trip back home (to Denmark) I met up with some Alfa guys. They got some interesting stuff going. Of relevance to this thread was a very nice piece of workmanship on a Rotrex compressor setup on a 2 liter TS (the good old 8 valve). I vitnessed the first start-up after a complete engine rebuild - fired right up! I actually have it on video, still unedited. Before rebuild it was dynoed at about 230 HP at the wheels with the Rotrex (setup for 0.6 bar max), and those are reliable HPs. Due to the innovative design of the Rotrex compressor, you basically don't hear it. It is almost completely quiet, compared to the loud whine you typically get. Also Eatons are loud as far as I know - heard one on a 2 liter GTV once. How is the Eaton loudness on the GTV6, Greg? The Rotrex is based on a planetary drive with oil providing the friction/traction... no traditional gears with teeth. See www.rotrex.dk (it is in English). Has anyone played with these? Any disadvantages?
One drawback, think they are kind of pricy. Otherwise...
Jes
One drawback, think they are kind of pricy. Otherwise...
Jes
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
On the subject of interesting stuff with regards to forced induction, check out this baby. Reliability has been good for the past ten years on this car and eats most things alive. Not sure of hp figures but Im sure Barry could tell you as he developed this car.
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