ALFAGTV6.COM

[Moynesey]

Not sure about mid engine Alfas but i was very lucky to once be given the keys to a modified 164. . . . It was a 3.0 12v front wheel drive with no back seats and a perspex screen . . . Thtas was until you pressed the starter button on the centre console and put the pin through the gear linkage to engage the 3.0 12v in the back driving the rear wheels, it went like a missile and the grip was amazing. It only weighed about the same as an average passenger due to the diet it had undergone but sounded like a Lambo on full throttle.

Best part it basically was a 164 front subframe with suspension, engine, box and barkes which almost bolted straight into the rear.

Owned by a guy over here named Mike, who is very well known in the 164 world, that was an experience i will always remember.

Watched him from my 164 Cloverleaf give a Diablo i shock when it couldnt catch back up!!

This is the video of it at Brooklands when i first met him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciElgEpQNFU

[MD]

Are there any more links to this car's construction?

My interest is not strictly related to this topic set but it would be usefull to know how the engine & drivetrain synchronisation was achieved as this is usually the Achilles' Heel of bi-motore concepts.

The second unknown to me is the handling aspects of such a car given its weight distribution. All wheel drive and grip may do the job in a straight line drag situation but what's it like in the bends?

These are some questions that come to mind which would be interesting to find out.

Otherwise a great contribution. Thank you. MD

[MD]

I think I have just found the answers to some of my own question.

Here's a Sud prepared by Mick in the UK (if it is the same guy?)

http://alfasud.alfisti.net/asus64e.html

[Duk]

Same thing but with just the engine in the middle, thanks. Loved the space frame type chassis.
Looking at my MR2 shows that Toyota used some parts from the FWD Corolla of the same era but it wasn't just a matter of jamming an engine where the back seat use to be. They moved the engine as far forward as they could to improve fron/rear weight distribution, but it still ended up 45front/55rear. A decent FWD should have the opposite, ening/g'box pushed backwards.

[Moynesey]

Hi

Not sure if there is any technical info but you go to the 164 cloverleaf forum, which uses the name grey beard he is a bit of a god to the member. I am sure he would discuss any point/interests you have, he is a top bloke.

As for the handling i threw it around country lanes for 10 mins and it handled superbly, it was just planted. Mike seemed to think it was also 50/50 wieght and after driving it i would have to agree. He was considering a light wieght version with twin 3.7 24v engines!!!

Didnt oversteer or understeer, wasnt titchy and put the power down brilliantly. With the second engine off, it handled better than my standard cloverleaf which like to understeer which i always corrected with a fun sized portiob of lift off oversteer!

[kevin]

This is what happens when you test launch control on the 155 tt mid mount with full slicks. Glad to see it happens on other boxes other than Alfa ones. Then again there were 300kw on wheels. Every week more adjustments are made on this car but will probabaly take another year to get right.

[SydneyJules]

SNAP!!!

(I've got the power!)

Nice work- stripped the splines off it nicely!

[Ahutchy]

I have been thinking about this on and off for a good while. As a long term hater of the rubbery prop shaft and mediocre shift mech of the Alfetta chassis, but a long term lover of the shape, the handling and the affordable cost, the mid engined approach fixes my peeves and adds 3 litre oomph.

I havent done any calculations yet but moving fuel and battery to the front and taking note of the pic attached 164 plan view indicates to me that the front rear balance should be no worse than most mid engined cars.

Looks? I'm thinking something like the famous (in Australia) Alfetta GTV Elfin sports sedan from the 80's and 90's (pic coming soon, cant find a pic of it on the web).

As an alternative to building a Hawk Stratos it almost makes sense, I think??

Andrew.

[Ahutchy]

Pic of above mentioned Alfa/Chev 6 litre sports sedan. Mid mounted in the front, if that makes ense.

[MALDI]

Alfa has already been there, done that. This link (in Italian) Automobilismo.it discusses two 1970s Alfa prototypes of interest here. The first is the Alfa Romeo 2000 Z Periscopio which is an Alfetta chassis powered by a mid-engine Alfa Nord with a Junior Z body (!). The second is the Alfa Romeo Sprint 6C a mid-engined Sud using a Busso V6. Both are owned by the Alfa museum. At the link click on the photo of the three cars to open up an interesting gallery of pictures. Google language tools can give a crude translation of the Italian text.

[Giuliettaevo2]

That Periscope car was at the Dutch Alfa Romeo meeting last weekend...

Very strange to look through one of the vents on the side of the car to see a Nordengine frontcover...

[kevin]

If MAD MAX was to made in Italy I think this is the car that would have been used.
Not quite finished but has everything a serious racer has but with some few extra ordinary features . It has a 105 series box upfront to handle its crazy power.
I must also be going mad as I think its pretty cool. Not saying that i would go to Mass in it.
Check it out.

[kevin]

and the snail

[Giuliettaevo2]

105 series box? Will that handle much power? I always thought that was just as weak as a transaxle gearbox...

What's the expected hp/Nm number on this turboed jem?

[la_strega_nera]

105 series box? Will that handle much power? I always thought that was just as weak as a transaxle gearbox...

What's the expected hp/Nm number on this turboed jem?

The weakness is the 116 series Diff - the 105 gearboxes seem to be holding up ok behind some fairly stout turbo 4cyls...