JJ,
Congrats!
The corner scale caught my attention. Are the corner weights correct? Unusual to see (even a lighted Milano) with heavier right front (than left front). Did you guys switch left and right connectors by any chance?
Jes
He needs to move the LF down or LR up.ar4me wrote:JJ,
Congrats!
The corner scale caught my attention. Are the corner weights correct? Unusual to see (even a lighted Milano) with heavier right front (than left front). Did you guys switch left and right connectors by any chance?
Jes
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-
junglejustice
- Verde
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:19 am
- Location: Granolaville, WA
Good eye! Yeah, it could be that I swapped the cables for the two front scales inadvertently, since I was only concerned at the point of this particular weigh-in with OVERALL weight...
Then again, I have been focusing weight during the build on the right of the car - alternator, battery, Accusump, remote oil-filter, block-extractor, SS braided oil-lines & housing, coils, electrical junction, ECU and main harness etc. (Don't know that I would have been that successful though...)
Still have the fire-system to go at the right rear/center - by the battery.
Also, this was prior to the temporary alignment and setting the interim ride-heights. I have also added the driveshaft and side-shafts since then - who knows where it is now!
Then again, I have been focusing weight during the build on the right of the car - alternator, battery, Accusump, remote oil-filter, block-extractor, SS braided oil-lines & housing, coils, electrical junction, ECU and main harness etc. (Don't know that I would have been that successful though...)
Still have the fire-system to go at the right rear/center - by the battery.
Also, this was prior to the temporary alignment and setting the interim ride-heights. I have also added the driveshaft and side-shafts since then - who knows where it is now!
...to Alfa, or not to Alfa? That is the question...
-
junglejustice
- Verde
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:19 am
- Location: Granolaville, WA
WOW! Yeah - well - I guess that you and I stand corrected a bit in our perceived weight bias of these cars Jes...
How did this happen!? I want to dig up my pics of the bare shell - I think that even then it was bias left on a bare shell of about 600 pounds...
Any way; weighed it again today (now a running car with the drive-shaft and side-shafts in, as well as whatever else was added-in - since the last pictorial and weigh-in...) Here's where we stand with 14 US gal. of fuel in the car:
Total Weight WITHOUT Driver: 2313 Pounds
LF 596 RF 718
LR 554 RR 445
Total Weight WITH Driver: 2584 Pounds (Driver needs a diet!)
LF 715 RF 732
LR 637 RR 500
FYI - I have not yet set the final ride-heights and/or corner-balanced the car! Pretty amazing what all of that shit on the right did for the setup! I am VERY pleased...
Got a couple of 4 pound glass fenders to go, an 11 pound CF hood, an 8 pound CF trunk-lid - the rear Evo glass bumper, a windshield, rear and side Lexan/Plexiglas windows, the Evo glass side-skirts and a fire-system. That's it - maybe a passenger-seat eventually!
What? 100-120 pounds maybe? With the 14 gal. of fuel that places the car right over 2,400 pounds wet - no driver!
How did this happen!? I want to dig up my pics of the bare shell - I think that even then it was bias left on a bare shell of about 600 pounds...
Any way; weighed it again today (now a running car with the drive-shaft and side-shafts in, as well as whatever else was added-in - since the last pictorial and weigh-in...) Here's where we stand with 14 US gal. of fuel in the car:
Total Weight WITHOUT Driver: 2313 Pounds
LF 596 RF 718
LR 554 RR 445
Total Weight WITH Driver: 2584 Pounds (Driver needs a diet!)
LF 715 RF 732
LR 637 RR 500
FYI - I have not yet set the final ride-heights and/or corner-balanced the car! Pretty amazing what all of that shit on the right did for the setup! I am VERY pleased...
Got a couple of 4 pound glass fenders to go, an 11 pound CF hood, an 8 pound CF trunk-lid - the rear Evo glass bumper, a windshield, rear and side Lexan/Plexiglas windows, the Evo glass side-skirts and a fire-system. That's it - maybe a passenger-seat eventually!
What? 100-120 pounds maybe? With the 14 gal. of fuel that places the car right over 2,400 pounds wet - no driver!
...to Alfa, or not to Alfa? That is the question...
That is still odd IMO.junglejustice wrote:Total Weight WITHOUT Driver: 2313 Pounds
LF 596 RF 718
LR 554 RR 445
Did you add lead to the right front? 
You have 14 gallons (~ 100 lbs) in the tank?
With you in the car diagonal is 53% and front is 56%. Without you it is 55% and 57%.
Jes
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
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junglejustice
- Verde
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:19 am
- Location: Granolaville, WA
...I'll give ya some lead...! 
Yeah, I was just looking at the weight of the fuel last night - What? 6.8 pounds per gallon? Or is that diesel? Petrol is lighter, no?
Any way - Don't know what to say - here are the with-and-without driver "screen-hots" of the scales - checked the lines twice this time too!
BTW - RZ - forgot to answer you - sorry; Jes had a connection in Sweden that hokked us up with the 2.1/2.2 tuns lock-to-lock manual racks! Feels awesome!
Yeah, I was just looking at the weight of the fuel last night - What? 6.8 pounds per gallon? Or is that diesel? Petrol is lighter, no?
Any way - Don't know what to say - here are the with-and-without driver "screen-hots" of the scales - checked the lines twice this time too!
BTW - RZ - forgot to answer you - sorry; Jes had a connection in Sweden that hokked us up with the 2.1/2.2 tuns lock-to-lock manual racks! Feels awesome!
- Attachments
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...to Alfa, or not to Alfa? That is the question...
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la_strega_nera
- Platinum
- Posts: 494
- Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:05 pm
- Location: Sunny Euro-Brisney
Specific gravity of petrol is somewhere around .75 I think?junglejustice wrote:...I'll give ya some lead...!
Yeah, I was just looking at the weight of the fuel last night - What? 6.8 pounds per gallon? Or is that diesel? Petrol is lighter, no?
Any way - Don't know what to say - here are the with-and-without driver "screen-hots" of the scales - checked the lines twice this time too!
Might want to adjust your coilovers a little
1966 GTV
1982 Suzuki "Bathurst" Katana
1995 Cagiva Mito (race kitted 250 powered)
1982 Suzuki "Bathurst" Katana
1995 Cagiva Mito (race kitted 250 powered)
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la_strega_nera
- Platinum
- Posts: 494
- Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:05 pm
- Location: Sunny Euro-Brisney
-
la_strega_nera
- Platinum
- Posts: 494
- Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:05 pm
- Location: Sunny Euro-Brisney
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junglejustice
- Verde
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:19 am
- Location: Granolaville, WA
??? We're talking about overall weight! We haven't touched corner-balancing yet. There's still some stuff to go on the car...la_strega_nera wrote: Might want to adjust your coilovers a little
Picked up some more race fuel for the dyno yesterday and happened to notice that all of the RON and MON numbers, as well as the temperature stability specs for the various octanes were printed on the "Trick" Race Fuel drums - they indicated 6 lbs per gallon for the weight of the 110 leaded...
...to Alfa, or not to Alfa? That is the question...
-
junglejustice
- Verde
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:19 am
- Location: Granolaville, WA
Any way, for those of you who have not seen these video links over on the other board yet...
What always amazes me about any of the Alfa engines that I have had on the dyno, is how nice and flat the torque curves typically are (and how wide the usable torque spread is) - even on the higher horsepower builds!
From below 2K rpm this one is already over 210 lb-ft of torque (and we have not even touched timing yet!) The fueling in the middle isn't that great yet either - we're still chasing a stumble at 2,900-3,400 rpm.
At any rate, above 2,800 rpm you're already over 200 lb-ft and at 3,200 we have 250 lb of torque! There's lots more there once I get the fuel right! The curve stays pretty flat from there on up. It climbs to about 270 lb-ft at 5K rpm and falls back down to 250 through 6,500 and then about 230 lb-ft by 6,800 again - where Alex gets out of the throttle a bit. It's a nice flat usable curve and at about 5K the horsepower really comes in again!
I think all of this moves up when I get the fuel right and start doing some power work. We've only spent a couple of hours in real tuning so far and most of it has been spent trying to get it smooth down low! Still, I'm pretty lean right now from 2,700 to 3,800 - where we were chasing the bump and then rich again up to 4,600 and then lean to about 6,400 and then a bit rich again up to 6,800...)
I typically get my curves pretty flat, but I haven't worked on this yet - still messing with the stumble down low! Dawie's work is truly amazing though - to end up with a torque curve that flat with cams this hot and high compression - blows me away!
Like I said though, we haven't even started to map this thing for peak power yet. You can see the early stumble in the video (soon after Alex goes to full-throttle.) It's almost like a lean-stumble, but the fueling was good there at the time (before and after trying richer and leaner mixtures), so I don't get it!
We're thinking spark-scatter maybe? I'm going to get rid of the Double Platinum's and go with an 8 or a 9 NGK. I'm also going to run a smaller sparkplug-gaps and see how she does! We'll find it. (They were around 1.25mm and Dawie was suggesting .5mm.
The horsepower curve is also amazing - it just goes straight up and there was no sign of it tapering off yet! She hits 300 at the wheels around 6,300 rpm and around 310-315 at 6,800 where we lift for now - mainly we kept going back to that 3K rpm point where the stumble was... Besides, we're only running 28 degrees of timing there (and we can likely go to 32-33 degrees or so given the efficiency of the motor, the good gas and with accurate fueling!)
Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJdBXviy7Yg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KHU9W8pe4k
What always amazes me about any of the Alfa engines that I have had on the dyno, is how nice and flat the torque curves typically are (and how wide the usable torque spread is) - even on the higher horsepower builds!
From below 2K rpm this one is already over 210 lb-ft of torque (and we have not even touched timing yet!) The fueling in the middle isn't that great yet either - we're still chasing a stumble at 2,900-3,400 rpm.
At any rate, above 2,800 rpm you're already over 200 lb-ft and at 3,200 we have 250 lb of torque! There's lots more there once I get the fuel right! The curve stays pretty flat from there on up. It climbs to about 270 lb-ft at 5K rpm and falls back down to 250 through 6,500 and then about 230 lb-ft by 6,800 again - where Alex gets out of the throttle a bit. It's a nice flat usable curve and at about 5K the horsepower really comes in again!
I think all of this moves up when I get the fuel right and start doing some power work. We've only spent a couple of hours in real tuning so far and most of it has been spent trying to get it smooth down low! Still, I'm pretty lean right now from 2,700 to 3,800 - where we were chasing the bump and then rich again up to 4,600 and then lean to about 6,400 and then a bit rich again up to 6,800...)
I typically get my curves pretty flat, but I haven't worked on this yet - still messing with the stumble down low! Dawie's work is truly amazing though - to end up with a torque curve that flat with cams this hot and high compression - blows me away!
Like I said though, we haven't even started to map this thing for peak power yet. You can see the early stumble in the video (soon after Alex goes to full-throttle.) It's almost like a lean-stumble, but the fueling was good there at the time (before and after trying richer and leaner mixtures), so I don't get it!
We're thinking spark-scatter maybe? I'm going to get rid of the Double Platinum's and go with an 8 or a 9 NGK. I'm also going to run a smaller sparkplug-gaps and see how she does! We'll find it. (They were around 1.25mm and Dawie was suggesting .5mm.
The horsepower curve is also amazing - it just goes straight up and there was no sign of it tapering off yet! She hits 300 at the wheels around 6,300 rpm and around 310-315 at 6,800 where we lift for now - mainly we kept going back to that 3K rpm point where the stumble was... Besides, we're only running 28 degrees of timing there (and we can likely go to 32-33 degrees or so given the efficiency of the motor, the good gas and with accurate fueling!)
Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJdBXviy7Yg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KHU9W8pe4k
...to Alfa, or not to Alfa? That is the question...