MD's Racer-The Flying Brick

Alfa Romeo ONLY please!
User avatar
Mats
Verde
Verde
Posts: 4059
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:26 am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Post by Mats » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:33 am

CV = Constant Velocity. You can have a greater angle in the joint without it creating a pulsating rotation. They will also have a much lower plunge force then the slip yoke in a cardan joint, does not matter a lot in our case but it can create severe imbalance issues in an installation where the parts move around a lot.
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-

GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
User avatar
MD
Verde
Verde
Posts: 2340
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:37 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Post by MD » Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:28 am

Still getting work done to the new shaft setup. Seems to be taking an eternity. :cry:
Last edited by MD on Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Transaxle Alfas Haul More Arse
User avatar
fedezyl
Verde
Verde
Posts: 645
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:45 pm
Location: Montevideo, Uruguay

Re: MD's Racer-The Flying Brick

Post by fedezyl » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:43 am

Thanks for the answer Mats, i've been looking for the forum for a few days and I finally realized that it moved a little bit!
Talking to my mechanic who has seen this setup before he told me that he preferred the CV joint arrangement instead of a slip joint per the same reasons as Mats pointed out.

Thanks for the help :wink:
grant
Platinum
Platinum
Posts: 304
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:14 pm
Location: San Jose, California
Contact:

Re: MD's Racer-The Flying Brick

Post by grant » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:17 pm

How much does a gutted Alfetta weigh? Ball park figure, as I know there are multitudes of differences. Jes' weight reduction on his Milano seems to be very extensive, yet he seems to be stuck around 2400lbs. How about the race Alfettas? I'm wondering if it is worthwhile to make a racer out of my v6 Milano, or to just find a beat up Alfetta GT and go that route?
BMW's are the ultimate driving machine!




I'm kidding -- please don't ban me.
User avatar
Mats
Verde
Verde
Posts: 4059
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:26 am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: MD's Racer-The Flying Brick

Post by Mats » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:20 pm

grant wrote:How much does a gutted Alfetta weigh? Ball park figure, as I know there are multitudes of differences. Jes' weight reduction on his Milano seems to be very extensive, yet he seems to be stuck around 2400lbs. How about the race Alfettas? I'm wondering if it is worthwhile to make a racer out of my v6 Milano, or to just find a beat up Alfetta GT and go that route?
You mean a bare unibody? 250-300Kg maybe...

Rough guestimation of course.
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-

GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
grant
Platinum
Platinum
Posts: 304
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:14 pm
Location: San Jose, California
Contact:

Re: MD's Racer-The Flying Brick

Post by grant » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:30 pm

I actually mean an Alfetta GT in race trim...for instance, how much does your car weigh?
BMW's are the ultimate driving machine!




I'm kidding -- please don't ban me.
User avatar
Micke
Verde
Verde
Posts: 810
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:33 pm
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: MD's Racer-The Flying Brick

Post by Micke » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:57 pm

Weight in race trim depends on rules.
My is 2.0 GTV is at minimum allowed 920 kg and it would be fairly easy dropping it still 10-40 kg.
Full cage, one seat, 16" tires, big battery, ~20 kg of flat underbody.
User avatar
MD
Verde
Verde
Posts: 2340
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:37 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: MD's Racer-The Flying Brick

Post by MD » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:45 pm

The Brick weighs 920kg but as you know it's a sedan. The biggest weight component that keeps the weight up is a fully compliant CAMS spec steel roll cage. If you used lighter materials to build the cage, it could be less. It doesn't use any composite substitue materials.
Transaxle Alfas Haul More Arse
User avatar
GTV27
Platinum
Platinum
Posts: 296
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:20 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: MD's Racer-The Flying Brick

Post by GTV27 » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:11 am

I've been told there is no weight penalty in a 116 sedan versus a coupe (given similar weight saving techniques) - which seems about right if the brick is 920kg - but don't have any actual facts to support this :wall: .

Also, it seems that a 75 can be built to weigh very little - twinsparks can be built to around the 1000kg mark without a whole lot of effort. This makes my poor old GTV6 look like a lardarse at 1220kg! :(

A 75 could be a nicer car to drive/build than a coupe also - better seating position and view, longer wheelbase, easier to install cage, lots of glass than can fairly easily become perspex. If you've already got one, that would seem to be a smart place to start a racer project.
Jason
1983 GTV6 2.8 litre
User avatar
ar4me
Verde
Verde
Posts: 645
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:55 am
Location: Southern California

Re: MD's Racer-The Flying Brick

Post by ar4me » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:56 am

Grant,
Keep in mind that quite a bit of stuff is heavier on the V6 Milano compared to 4 cyl Alfetta. Engine is what?, another 160 lbs. Then you also have heavier drive train components. The best starting point may be an early 75 carb. I had a 2.0 carb (not TS) years ago in Europe, and it had the 4-lug hubs like the Alfetta. I think Colin's full race GTV6 weighs about the same as my race Milano, although he has much more extensive roll cage and chassis reinforcement - more glass replaced with Lexan, more metal cut out, no heavy ABS components, my non-stock fuel setup is somewhat heavy ... Make whatever is more economical for you and have fun.
BTW, I weighed Roxanne just a few weeks ago. Exact same weight of 2467 lbs (1119 kgs) fully wet, but better weight distribution (which can be further improved with the adjusters on the springs).
Jes
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
User avatar
Micke
Verde
Verde
Posts: 810
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:33 pm
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: MD's Racer-The Flying Brick

Post by Micke » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:25 am

The starting point doesnt' make much difference IMHO.
The weight of a stripped bodyshell Alfetta - Giulietta - GT - GTV - 90 - 75 cannot be far off each other. Almost every part is also interchangeable which evens up any weight differences.
It's simply a matter of taste and what's available.
User avatar
MD
Verde
Verde
Posts: 2340
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:37 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: MD's Racer-The Flying Brick

Post by MD » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:11 pm

A small favour guys.

If you have a generic topic you want to discuss regarding racing, could I suggest you raise it within an existing heading or create your own if necessary.

Otherwise this topic about the Brick is going to look very pear shape soon.

I am the first to admit I do this accidentally myself so please, this is not aimed at anyone specifically, it's just a little prompt.

Thanks, MD
Transaxle Alfas Haul More Arse
OzMidnight
Silver
Silver
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:28 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: MD's Racer-The Flying Brick

Post by OzMidnight » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:10 pm

Hi MD, it's been a while...any more updates on your car and its' driveline?
Non Illigitimi Carborundum
User avatar
MD
Verde
Verde
Posts: 2340
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:37 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: MD's Racer-The Flying Brick

Post by MD » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:59 am

Yes I agree..

We had some fun last week end at Morgan Park even if we only used 3 gears most of the time..
No sooner did we start testing, I discovered we had some wierd noise with the clutch. At about this time I had had just about enough of the mechanical hoodoos so we made a decision to drive it to destruction and find out what is the weak link. Mainly 'cause nobody could make a real determination as to what the noise actually was even though we all had a fairly good idea but in the end all the ideas were wrong.

Well to its credit, the Brick went all week end with the mystery noise getting louder with every round and finally on virtually the final round, we lost drive as if to say, what you bastards want blood ?

The positives.

The conversion of the front donut to BMW PCD is a total success and has eliminated all the hammering up and down the shaft at idle. I feel that a small modification to the rear coupling to fit a similar type will isolated the transmission chatter as well leaving just a uni. in the middle. These couplings are nothing like the Alfa rubbish and can and do break crankshafts before they break themselves.

The negatives

We broke a LHS CV joint on the LHS axle even though both were fully reconditioned. Doesn't say much for replacement part quality ! We also broke the clutch front housing which turned out to be the source of the noise. It must have had a hairline fracture in the casing or a casting flaw but not evident to the naked eye on assembly. I mean these things usually break when you apply huge amounts of horsepower for which they are not rated for. I would like to say that this is the case but who would believe it ? We are getting the repalcements x-rayed to sort out his nonsense.

So we are back in repair mode and making the stuff that breaks tougher and the bank balance smaller. :D Getting closer all the time...never say die !!
Transaxle Alfas Haul More Arse
User avatar
Giuliettaevo2
Verde
Verde
Posts: 776
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 11:56 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: MD's Racer-The Flying Brick

Post by Giuliettaevo2 » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:13 am

Vibrations can also cause the clutchhousing to fracture... So misalignement or unbalance of the two-piece-shaft ( forgot the word for it.. :oops: ) may have something to do with it.

Any good pics on the BMW parts?
Drive it like you stole it...
Post Reply