Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by Alfa 75 Racer » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:55 am

Ciao !
Cam pullies are coming from CatCams and normal Price is € 480,- +Vat., as I will put on my race car some stickers I´ve got a good discount.

According use of an electrical waterpump, ... as I know, ... speed of the pump will be controlled via the electronic water pump controlbox and a temperature sensor.

I would try to modify an old waterpump first as a prototype, ... I would put out the whole shaft and close the it up.

There is only one thing to look at, ... the different belt position of crank / alternator.

I think 10kmiles with a race car is quiet a lot so I hope pump will work for a long time.

A friend of mine is driving with an Alfa GTV V6 and he has changed from OEM waterpump to electric one and he told me that there is no difference in temperatures so I didn´t change to the electrical one.

Cheers
Wolfgang
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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by kevin » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:13 pm

Wolfgang , wow :shock: by these pics you have really taken the conversion to the next level. Its all perfectly fabricated with correct clearances to eliminate the problem areas which can turn into weak points under racing loads and vibrations .
Keep pics coming as this forum needs some exciting engineering like this .
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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by PowerMods911 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:31 am

Wolfgang, I need to do the exact modification on the 166 motor I'm building for my race car. I'd like to copy your idea. Any chance of sending me dimensions or even better manufacturing the mod for me :lol: .
Pity you so far away the transport costs will be very expensive.
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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by Alfa 75 Racer » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:51 am

Ciao PowerMods 911 !

Thank you that you like my engineering work on this conversion, ... it´s the really first one for me but I´m working on Alfa Romeos since I was 16 years old and that is a Long time, ... will have my 48th birthday this year.

Before I can promise you anything to do let me first tell you that this is only a hobby for me and I only find the time to work in my garage after my daily 8-10 hours job at DIAMOND AIRCRAFT here in Austria and also I have a family with a 4 years old little girl.

I first want to finish the complete conversion if really all mods will work and then I can take a look on maybe producing some parts for the mods.

BTW which dimensions and for which mod do you need, ... maybe I can help you out with that at this time.

Many greetings from Austria
Wolfgang
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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by PowerMods911 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:12 am

Wolfgang, like yourself I'm also diung this as a hobby so I understand.

The mod I'm interetsed in is the water pump and theromstat housing to get the clearance past the pulleys and belt.

Your pictures are great as it show me what I need to look out for and do.

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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by 75evo » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:33 am

Wolfgang, when you finish your headers, please post some pics. I'm trying to collect all possible 24V conversion headers (just for fun). So far we have:

Serf African spaghetti
Serf African shortie
Alfa Parts Exchange spaghetti
Alfa Parts Exchange shortie (mine)
JK long tube
Beninca shortie
les français tres longues headers

All just for fun of course.
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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by kevin » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:43 am

Yeah he alteady has the serf efrican kortjies ( shorties) . I think he will make 300hp as I made 285 on my 3.0 with same headers and half those mods . If budget allowed I'm sure they would be some beautiful spaghettis .
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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by Alfa 75 Racer » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:45 am

Hey Kevin !

About headers I wanted to ask you, ... what do you really think about those long once from extrem-tuning.bg in Bulgaria, ... do you think I could expect more power than with the "Shorties" ?

Or is that design of the Bulgarian more important for higher RPM´s than I want to go with hydraulic lifters, ... according to Jim max RPM 7.800.
Headers EXTREM TUNING.bg.jpg
Headers EXTREM TUNING.bg.jpg (120.57 KiB) Viewed 2663 times
Please give me your thoughts about that headers, Kevin !

Cheers
Wolfgang
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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by kevin » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:20 pm

Jim has proved with all his tests that the longer headers give you more hp and I think it was 20hp up over the shorties which started being apparent over 6000rpm . I think critical is your pipe sizing when going for the 550mm length headers . Those costs of those headers are astronomical . :shock:
I believe best sizing on the 3.0 GTV 24v is 38mm ID going into 52-56mm ID .
The M3 BMW e36 had a very short section of 100mm from port where it was 36mm then stepped up to 38mm ID but these were SA cars that made 285 hp . I liked the short headers as I did not like to rev to high on my car and needed the extra torque at our high altitude .
Maybe it was an illusion the extra torque but I did make the long spaghetti but they were only a 36mm ID so I never got to test against the 38mm ID on the 550mm long primaries .
At least our racing was not governed to 3.0 which yours is .
Ps those headers are perfect for race car . Hope the slot the flanges so you can take them on and off easily by sliding them .
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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by 75evo » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:08 pm

Kev and Wolfgang,

I was talking to JK, these spaghetti in the engine bay design makes the engine bay hot. JK's long tube headers are better for both race and road cars IMHO.
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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by kevin » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:40 am

Yes , that's why I sold my set because it was melting most things in site in my road car BUT in a race car you don't have all the extra piping for aircon and airboxes that are in the way. In the race car its not a big issue as you got air coming where the headlights are and you generally do more in the engine bay in terms of heat shielding and moving air filter into the arches away from heat. Also you cut big vents into the inside mudguards ( arches) for cooling but you don't really want to do this on a road car at all . . Should see how much sheilding you have to do when you have two turbos in the engine bay !

Edit : if their was a choice and had to choose which type of spaghetti - I would prefer the headers/primaries/manifolds to go downwards as this would save having to do all the remedial work mentioned above and you reduce the heat soak into the plenum . All this off course if clearances area all good around custom sumps etc . Nothing worse than exhaust vibration into the body . I would also heat shield the engine mounts if manifolds were very close and the starter .
Penne rules :D
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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by Jim K » Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:18 am

Heat shielding the motor mounts is mandatory! The pipes are mere mm away! I have wrapped mine with heat-shield tape ~3mm thick. On the next set for the 3.2, I will have the top half ceramic-coated for even less heat radiation.
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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by kevin » Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:30 am

I know it takes away from the looks as their is nothing more impressive than looking at a well engineered engine bay but if you weld two nuts on top of the headers in order to bolt some heat shields like in modern cars might be way to go . Only problem is this will eliminate those glorious hours you spend when just standing and staring into the engine bay . This might sound weird but I'm sure most Alfa nuts are guilty of this form of Alfa perversion . :D
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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by Jim K » Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:14 am

If you rout the header primaries downward like all sane people do 8) you won't have to worry about excessive heat! Road or race car, there are ducts and pipes on top of the engine and notably the intake duct going to the plenum! No wayI'd want flying spaghetti primaries 2-3"under there!
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Re: Alfa Romeo 75 3,0 V6 Gr. A Conversion from 12V to 24V

Post by kevin » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:32 am

Yeah was thinking about heat shielding the primaries that go downwards like you get in the 164 . But I guess those shields are mainly used to stop heat radiating into the fan motor and radiator .
Hey Wolfgang , post some more pics of those belt pulleys ?
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