ALFAGTV6.COM

MD · Post by MD » Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:31 pm

OK stop looking already !!
Think I got lucky. Possibly one on it's way.

Can't wait.

To be continued.....

MD · Post by MD » Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:47 pm

Seems I was only partially wrong with my claim of horsepower for the old 105 engines. I should have said the injected version instead of the carbie equipped ones. But the power output was correct @ 150 bhp. Check it out:-

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.ph ... arnum=1441

General specifications
Record last updated Before 12 / 01 / 2004
Country of origin Italy
Years of production 1971 - 1976
Numbers built 37379
Body design Bertone
Weight 1055 kilo / 2325.9 lbs
Drivetrain
Engine Straight 4
Engine Location Front , longitudinally mounted
Displacement 1.962 liter / 119.7 cu in
Valvetrain 2 valves / cylinder, DOHC
Fuel feed Spica Fuel injection
Aspiration Naturally Aspirated
Gearbox 5 speed Manual
Drive Rear wheel drive
Performance figures
Power 150 bhp / 112 KW @ 5500 rpm
Torque 207 Nm / 153 ft lbs @ 3500 rpm
BHP/Liter 76 bhp / liter
Power to weight ratio 0.14 bhp / kg
Top Speed 193 km/h / 120 mph
0-60 mph Acceleration 9.2 s

That humble pie doesn't taste too bad after all..

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:49 am

What can I say?

Italian invented numbers. Highly exxaggerated, probably measured on a dyno calibrated with donkeys

Check the acceleration figures. Doesn't correlate at all with the power.
I measures my old 2000 Berlina some years ago. With 145 dynoed horsepower and really slippy 185/70 tires it was one second faster than this claim.

kterkkila · Post by **kterkkila** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:31 pm

Hello,

I haven't been writing here for a while, actually this is the first time on the new forum for me.

So some of you might recall that I was project going on preparing 75 TS for endurance. Rules force us to use original headers, injection systems and so on..

We drove our first two races at this year with almost stock engine. Only performance modifications on the engine were ported head, raised compression ratio and superchip. The engine wasn't too powerful, comparing to other cars on the class. Other big reason for that was our overweighted body..

Now we only need to get power up, weight down and the handling a bit better. Quite easy formula for success

Regarding the topic, the engine should make at least +20 hp. Now it's somewhere at the level of 154 hp, or so. 180 hp would be very nice and 170 still ok.. Dyno graphs are on our www-site (scroll to the bottom):
http://www.jakita.com/tech4.html

It's quite easy to see that the engine wasn't running too well on that shot.

Now the plan is to run the engine faster, maybe up to 7300 rpm. To go for that, thinking what kind of cams, pistons and compression ratio to use? Maybe stock TS bottom end could handle that for a while, but quess not for longer races.. Ideas for pistons or cams?

Already got one offer from CPS. Nice pistons I think, but they are quite valuable also.
http://www.pistonispeciali.it

One solution on cam issue could be "weld and regring" operation on local machining shop. If so, the choices will be limited on the profiles the grinder got on shop. What kind of cams would be good for peaking near to 7000 rpm? 13 mm lift for intake is what I like, but have no idea how much lift is needed for exhaust on TS. Should there be same amount of degrees on exhaust than on intake? 265 for both? Who knowns.. Other cam options?

Our engine is now on pieces also because of broken the head gasket. It was original Rieze and we had about 10 full speed track hours on it. Any ideas what we should try next? Multilayer? Separated rings?

Budget is at hobbying level and we do this thing just for fun, so the costs are also important.

Regards
Kimmo

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:19 am

Losing weight is often free...

At least until you replace stuff to get a lower weight.

If you wan't a serious "loose-weight" thread going you might wanna start a new thread, pity to destroy this almost pure TS-engine thread by talking body-chassis stuff.

81GTV6 · Post by **81GTV6** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:25 pm

I could go for a weight losing thread, its about the only performance i can afford

kterkkila · Post by **kterkkila** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:19 am

Starting new weight loosing topic would be good idea.

But what comes to TS-engines, what pistons would you recommend? Who have the best quality/price ratio?

CPS's are light (piston for Megane with same bore is 320g) and they looks good. Price I got for a set was 795€, including 22% vat and shipping. Aren't they a bit expensive?

Also got offer from multilayer headgasket with separated compression rings for 180€ (inc. vat+ship.).

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:49 am

CPS's are light (piston for Megane with same bore is 320g) and they looks good. Price I got for a set was 795€, including 22% vat and shipping. Aren't they a bit expensive?

LIFE IS!

or

You get what you pay for.

or

Markalla saa markan tavaran

and now the more serious part.
As you must limit the fuel consumption you probably don't want to rev very high. Thus, I would buy some slightly cheaper pistons like Venolias. Slightly heavier but you could get them in 84.8 mm to stay just below 2000 cc.

kterkkila · Post by **kterkkila** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:06 pm

Yup, that's true in other hand, but.. price/quality is not a constant (that's how I see it

) and choice of quality must been done having real needs and budget in mind. All suggestions and ideas are more than welcome when trying to figure out which way to go. I'm just asking your opinion..

So Venolias are also one interesting option. I'll try to find out what kind of pistons they are selling for TS's, and in what price. I know they'll make also custom pistons, but not sure how big influence that customing have to price.

You are Micke also right in that fuel consumption issue, but that's a kind of optimization problem we'll need to deal with. Now when we have stock cams, the fuel economy is excellent, but the performance isn't good enough. I'm sure that with right cams the engine could give more power also in same rpm level, but not just enough to get in target hp's. Even with these stock cams, higher rpm's would help going faster

Anyway, light good quality (NOT too good and too expensive) pistons (lighter than stock) with larger valve play are must in this case to build reliable bottom end.

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:00 am

I dug my info about the forged Venolias.

Job No. 108033-A
Part No. 10040
Alfa 2000 TS. Bore 85 mm.

Weight 380 g. Pin 119. Could be lighter. There's still meat to do some grinding.

Didn't check the exact compression yet. Will decide on Nord or TS rods to get 12-12.5:1

Price was about $ 110 each.

Ordering them in 84.8 should not be a problem.

Hope this helps.

kterkkila · Post by **kterkkila** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:35 am

Thanks Micke, that helps a lot

I really should buy you couple of beers, for all that help you have been offering in last two years

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:00 am

Thanks for the pistons go to Mike Valant.

I think he designed them and at least gave me the info needed to order.
Without an order number Venolia couldn't give me anything. I guess they didn't hear about a database.

kterkkila · Post by **kterkkila** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:07 pm

Piston plans have been on hold for a while, but now there is at least several good options to choose from.

What about the head gaskets? Who else makes performance or race gaskets fot TS than Gozolli and Navalinea? Unfortunately Elring doesn't make for Alfa.

Maurizio · Post by **Maurizio** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:07 pm

Gasket: spesso http://www.spesso.com

kterkkila · Post by **kterkkila** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:17 am

I asked also from Spesso, but they claimed that they have only standard gaskets? Are those any better than originals?

ALFAGTV6.COM

Engines

Twin Spark Engines