Some more brake upgrades for the 116.

MR2 Zig
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116-Barry

Post by MR2 Zig » Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:32 am

Remember too that if you have the vented discs you will want the duct to put the fresh air at the hub , not the outer edge. The vented discs act like a centrifical pump impeller drawing in at the center and out at the outer diameter.

That ought to work well for the solid discs as long as there is a debris screen in place....gravel and tire balls could make for an ugly mess there.
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116-Barry

Post by buzzed » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:19 pm

Alfetta GT
Alfetta cloverleaf hub and axle with larger bearings.
Bullit 330mm*28mm vented solid disks (5*114.3 converted to 4*98)+chanfer to clear rad on hub)
Alfa 166 4 pot calipers
Bracket I borrowed from someone on this forum, 10mm plate, quite simple.
ARP wheel studs
3/4inch master cylinder (Girling)
17inch Simmons, but expect this would also fit under many 16inch rims.
As yet, untested, but expect a significant increase in breaking performance!
Reasoning for setup: car produces about 350Hp, with more planned. Also admit to it being a bit of a looks thing....track/street car...aka toy. Price played a big part, whole conversion cost about 1200 USD including new bearings, new pads, new disks etc.

Just adding to the pool of options people have. (Usual comment applies...use at your own risk!).

Cheers
Mike
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Giuliettaevo2
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116-Barry

Post by Giuliettaevo2 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:31 am

Nice one! :)

My adapters have been used many times by now.... :mrgreen:

You can buy almost off-the-shelf discs for your car... from a Lancia Delta III 1.8 2009 ->.

these are 330x28 with a pcd of 4x98mm. Only thing needed to do is to make the centering hole larger. :)

this one. :wink:

Do tell more about your engine and trans.... :twisted: 350+ bhp sounds interesting.. :D
Drive it like you stole it...
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116-Barry

Post by Duk » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:59 pm

Giuliettaevo2 wrote: Do tell more about your engine and trans.... :twisted: 350+ bhp sounds interesting.. :D
If I may: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/engine- ... tform.html
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116-Barry

Post by buzzed » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:52 am

ice one!

My adapters have been used many times by now....

You can buy almost off-the-shelf discs for your car... from a Lancia Delta III 1.8 2009 ->.

these are 330x28 with a pcd of 4x98mm. Only thing needed to do is to make the centering hole larger.

this one.

Do tell more about your engine and trans.... 350+ bhp sounds interesting..
Yes, the bracket saved some wood carving and I was very happy you posted it here! I thought long and hard about various combinations. I did not know I could get evo disks and it would be very nice to have 4*98 straight out of the box that is for sure!! I doubt they would be available in Aus though and by the time you ship heavy disks prices get out of hand...my disks cost AU120 for a pair, that was the main advantage. Of course I then spent 150 for machining the center hole, the pcd and a a chamfer on the locating hole hub. It also gives me the option to move to a 5*114.3 PCD which has some wheel selection advantages.

Thanks for the info!

Mike
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116-Barry

Post by buzzed » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:02 am

Oh sorry, yes engine and trans mods:

Well yes there are a couple of links to the modifications (in detail) at Alfabb but it requires a lot of trawling...still, if you have the time, I've detailed a lot of the how to, as well as others helping along the way.

In short:

8valve 2liter Alfetta engine.
Supercharged (SC14) and turbocharged (Garrett GT35/40).
stock head other than 10548 cams
25psi boost
forged JE ceramic coated pistons
Carrillo rods
lots of other small things.

Tansaxle:
Twinspark, rebuilt with 50% diff lock (I do have an Alfa 75 3ltr twinspark rear end but as yet not needed)
Tilton twin plate clutch with ceramic unsprung pucks.
GTV6 propshaft and donuts
isostatic shifter
Fuse is the street tyres (225's), but still gets surprising traction.

Car is street/track days. More fun than serious.
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PietereQ
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116-Barry

Post by PietereQ » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:04 pm

Like some of you im running the Dutch big brake it i.e 166V6 calipers, and 330mm 156 GTA rotors combo. I have ordered new pads, Ferodo DS2500 (FCP1334H) and here's the problem. It appears that ferodo interprets OEM pad dimensions rather freely:

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as you can see, new pads protrude out, 1,5mm the rotor's edge in the middle section of pad... Question is what to do now? Modify pads somehow? Or just fortget about it. I don't know, it doesn't feel right, and I can assume this will be the problem with most aftermarket race pads. Any ideas are appriciated, because I'm running out of patience with this car.
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GTV27
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116-Barry

Post by GTV27 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:58 pm

the overhang is no problem - that part of the pad will just crumble and fall apart anyhow (that's what the ds2500 does in my experience) - the brake pressure is centred around the pistons and dissipates towards the edge - you have pushed the pistons out as far as practical and have maximised your leverage - that's good!
Jason
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116-Barry

Post by Mats » Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:56 am

Looks like Ferodo matches the stock disc of dia 310mm better then oem pads... :)

Like stated above, overhang is not an issue.
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116-Barry

Post by fedezyl » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:24 pm

I'd mill the 1.5mm off in a lathe and that's it if I were you, but I don't think it is much of a problem really.
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PietereQ
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116-Barry

Post by PietereQ » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:06 pm

Mats wrote:Looks like Ferodo matches the stock disc of dia 310mm better then oem pads... :)

My second thought also...


Thanks guys, I can sleep now :) (well technically not today, since it's friday :mrgreen: )
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116.

Post by shiny_car » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:40 am

Hi.

I thought I would show my version of a brake upgrade. My car is a V6 75, which is why I've been a forum lurker most of the time. I also live in Australia. The car is undergoing a very long but very thorough restoration to create a 'fast street' car, and will be used sparingly. Because the car is still years away from completion, I won't be able to comment on performance until then, sorry.

I will be first to say that this upgrade is 'way overkill' for my needs, but I like bling, as long as it is functional. My aim was to use as many off-the-shelf parts as possible, and Alfa-specific.

The way I see it:
* pros: braking power; bling
* cons: cost; weight; minimum 17" wheel size requirement

The list of parts:
* Alfa Romeo 159/Brera/Spider monoblock Brembo 4-pot calipers (secondhand, EUR$349 + delivery)
* caliper decals (GBP$7 + delivery)
* caliper paint (A$15.95 each, local pickup)
* Ferodo DS2500 FRP3067H pads (US$215 + delivery)
* Girodisc pad shims (US$23 + delivery)
* Tarox 2-piece brake discs, 330 x 26mm discs with Tarox F2000 style grooves (discs ~EUR$600 + delivery; centre hats EUR$260 + delivery)
* custom designed/fabricated caliper adapters (A$495, local pickup)

Approximate weights:
* original disc + studs: 6.0kg
* Tarox disc + centre hat + bolts/nuts + studs: 8.4kg

* original caliper + pins + spring clip + pads: 2.8kg
* Brembo caliper + pins + springs clip + Ferodo pads: 4.0kg

Tarox disc part number KMRD0038 (and you can specify if you want grooves, and what style). Centre hats are 75 specific, and part of the Tarox inventory but not listed in their catalogue that I've seen. You can also buy a complete kit with these discs/hats + Tarox calipers, but I prefer the Alfa Brembos. Also, you can avoid the mistake I initially made: the vendor and I did not realise that ordering 'KMRD0038' does NOT include the hats, and are the discs only. You must order the hats separately; they also have '0038' inscribed on them, but I was not told a prefix.

I also plan to change the master cylinder to a 25.4mm version.
I keep a photo log of all my work, so here are photos of the brake conversion:

Secondhand 159 monoblock Brembo calipers.
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One clean, one dirty caliper.
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Original 269mm disc vs Tarox 330mm disc.
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These Tarox discs are single piece billet steel, not cast. Note the inscribed '2313', which is the week of manufacture (early June 2013); must have been made to order, because I ordered in May 2013.
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Disc + pad + caliper.
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Tarox alloy centre hats arrived. Date of manufacture '4712' (mid-Nov 2012). Needed to re-use original studs.
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Test fitment of hub + hat + disc, and within existing 15" wheels. No room for calipers!
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These will eventually be the wheels: OZ Racing 18x8" Superleggera 5x100 PCD, +35mm offset. With 225/35R18 tyres...I'll 'make them fit'! Plenty of clearance behind the spokes for the Brembos.
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Wanted to prevent corrosion on the 'unbraked' surfaces of the discs (centre + outer edge), so masked and sprayed with VHT Caliper Clear. Subsequent surface corrosion confirmed it was a good idea.
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M6 Bolts + lock nuts supplied by Tarox.
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Discs + centre hats + hubs assembled.
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More clearance of corners on splash guards required. Trimmed and resprayed.
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Hub/disc mounted onto steering knuckle.
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Back to the calipers. Compressed air to 'punch' out the pistons in preparation for spraying the calipers.
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Pistons had some surface corrosion on exposed edges, but otherwise all in good condition, as were the seals. Pistons polished with a Dremel + wire brush attachment, and seals wiped clean.
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Calipers masked and ready for spraying. VHT Caliper Paint, Real Red and Clear.
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Many coats of red, then cured in the kitchen oven at 90 degrees celcius for 1 hour, as per VHT directions.
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Heat resistant 'Alfa Romeo' caliper decals. Carefully measured dimensions, masking tape for alignment, then applied.
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Then sprayed with clear, but 'orange peel' effect on the paint.
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Visible side of caliper carefully sanded smooth with 800 then 1200 grade wet&dry to remove much of the orange peel. Then machine-polished using Menzerna PO1066F polish, followed by Pinnacle Paint Cleansing Lotion and Poorboy's World Wheel Wax Paste.
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Final caliper stage was refitting the pistons. ATE Brake Cylinder Paste (grease) smeared onto pistons and seals. Pistons/seals pushed back into position, and thus completed!
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Now the caliper adapters. These were designed and manufactured by a local engineering workshop. I provided the hardware (disc/hub mounted onto steering knuckle + caliper + bolts) and they measured and produced. I can't recall exactly what aluminium they used (it's a T6 variety), but they advised it doesn't need anodizing and will not corrode. They did a good job, catering for the tapped M14x2.0 holes spaced 130mm apart, M12 untapped holes 76mm apart, radial distance and offset.
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Mounting bolts are high tensile. The M14x100mm bolts are zinc plated. Without searching endlessly, I could not find zinc plated M12x40mm x1.5 thread pitch cap screws to bolt the adapters to the knuckle, so they are simply anodized versions.
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Test fitting the pieces to the steering knuckle!
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And finally, showing that the pads sit nicely over the disc surface. (Note, Brembo pad spring clip not used during test fitment.)
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So, hopefully that's of interest and help to some of you guys.

I've found these forums to be a huge wealth of knowledge, and generally more 'technical' than others. Well done.

:)
kevin
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116.

Post by kevin » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:32 pm

Wow :shock: what brilliant pics and detail . Cant wait to see pics on the rest of the build .
Out of interest do Tarox make a disc to fit a 16inch rim set up with same bells ie a 305/28mm
shiny_car
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116.

Post by shiny_car » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:43 pm

Cheers.
kevin wrote:Out of interest do Tarox make a disc to fit a 16inch rim set up with same bells ie a 305/28mm
Yes, they offer a 298x24mm and 310x24mm.
http://docs.tarox.com/brake-kits-catalo ... _romeo.pdf

:)
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Michael
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Re: Some more brake upgrades for the 116.

Post by Michael » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:38 pm

That is an inspirationally brilliant project!
Thanks for sharing.
Michael
1981 GTV6
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