hey guys,
i was at watkins glen this past week for a trackmasters track day and the car ran spectacular. however, even after switching to castrol srf (the friggin expensive 600 temp fluid) i am still finding myself with cooked fluid toward the end of the day. my front brake disc temps are in the 250 degree F range (that is an avg of numbers from face, center and caliper) which is fine for the fluid. but the rear calipers are above 400 even after i take the car for a 10 min normal drive to keep the air moving for cool down. those solid rotors really retain the heat. anyone else have this problem. i mean i am consistently cooking fluid. and i have done my abs. best to flush out the remainder of ate blue juice i had two full system bleeds ago. does anyone have their brake temps after a typical track session and how much cooler do the vented rear rotors run?
i mean i think that switching to the wilwood dynalites i have been working on will help but without comp tossing those solid rotors i might be chasing my tail.
advice?
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Sporttunergtv6
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MerrilGordon
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Well, you've hit on one of the transaxle cars chief week spots. Vented rotors are a definite must. I haven't switched yet myself but until I do, everything else is just half measures.
Until you get vented rotors installed, be sure you have very high performance pads. Carbotechs or other brands of carbon pads are a good way to go. A tip I picked up on the yahoo alfaracers news group was to add thin shim stock shaped to match the pad backing plates. This creates another interface the heat has to cross before it gets to the brake fluid. I have put heat wrap around the exhaust pipe where it passes near the caliper, as well as tie wrap hoses underneath the car to get air (any air!) into that area. These brakes are so protected that it seems there is nothing pushing the heated air out. I’ve just added speed bleeders and will give those a try at the track. Maybe during lunchtime I’ll jack up the rear of the car and do a quick bleed and adjustment of the pads to get any air out and bring the peddle back up. An additional step I’ve not tried yet is a brake balance/bias adjustor. My early GTV6 has lots of rear brake bias and by shifting some of the braking work load more to the front, which should reduce the heat build up as well.
Even after all that the brakes are still not adequate for track use. Vented rotors are the real beginning I think. Even at that, most of the common conversions involve splitting the rear calipers and installing spacers. This retains the hand brake function but then limits the pad size. I like the idea of having pads at least twice the size. Or to put it another way, oversize the components enough that you only have to perform pad changes after six track days or so. I currently am getting one to two tracks days per set of rear pads. (Fronts are no problem at the moment.)
Merril
Until you get vented rotors installed, be sure you have very high performance pads. Carbotechs or other brands of carbon pads are a good way to go. A tip I picked up on the yahoo alfaracers news group was to add thin shim stock shaped to match the pad backing plates. This creates another interface the heat has to cross before it gets to the brake fluid. I have put heat wrap around the exhaust pipe where it passes near the caliper, as well as tie wrap hoses underneath the car to get air (any air!) into that area. These brakes are so protected that it seems there is nothing pushing the heated air out. I’ve just added speed bleeders and will give those a try at the track. Maybe during lunchtime I’ll jack up the rear of the car and do a quick bleed and adjustment of the pads to get any air out and bring the peddle back up. An additional step I’ve not tried yet is a brake balance/bias adjustor. My early GTV6 has lots of rear brake bias and by shifting some of the braking work load more to the front, which should reduce the heat build up as well.
Even after all that the brakes are still not adequate for track use. Vented rotors are the real beginning I think. Even at that, most of the common conversions involve splitting the rear calipers and installing spacers. This retains the hand brake function but then limits the pad size. I like the idea of having pads at least twice the size. Or to put it another way, oversize the components enough that you only have to perform pad changes after six track days or so. I currently am getting one to two tracks days per set of rear pads. (Fronts are no problem at the moment.)
Merril
82 GTV6 3.0
I am using Porterfield R4 s and have experienced no problem with fade front or rear on my 86 GTV6 with otherwise stock braking system.I use Pentosin DOT4 racing fluid and bleed my brakes about every 3- 4 track days.I ran Watkins Glen last year with this setup and had no problems in fact it's a pretty easy track on brakes - relatively speaking.Perhaps you guys are running more powerfull cars ( mine is mildly modified 2.5 135 rwhp.)My Porterfields last me about 2/3 of the season- front and at least double that on the rear.I run "r" compound tires so grip is enough to make the binders work.
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
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MerrilGordon
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I don't remember when the transition occured but at some point the GTV6 had the brake bias reduced at the rear. I think it was something about too much rear pad wear in normal use. With hard old street tires by rears skid first. I think they should be reduced some. Will get worse if I ever install gummy track tires.
Murray, your car definitely has the reduced bias at the rear or you'd be locking up the rears with your grippier tires under hard braking, weight transfer and all. I wonder if your rears could be optomised to break a little more and reduce the fronts work load? Might end up with Sporttunergtv6's problem though.
Merril
Murray, your car definitely has the reduced bias at the rear or you'd be locking up the rears with your grippier tires under hard braking, weight transfer and all. I wonder if your rears could be optomised to break a little more and reduce the fronts work load? Might end up with Sporttunergtv6's problem though.
Merril
82 GTV6 3.0
Merrill yes I could probably get a little more out of the rears with a change to the bias but for now all my effort is directed to improving the abilities of the wingnut behind the steering wheel 
>I would say that the one and only clear advantage my old GTV6 has over today's cars on the track is braking.I can go deep enough into the braking zones to scare people (myself included) and do it consistantly with no fade.
>I would say that the one and only clear advantage my old GTV6 has over today's cars on the track is braking.I can go deep enough into the braking zones to scare people (myself included) and do it consistantly with no fade.1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
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MerrilGordon
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Murray, You've certainly got it figured out. The best speed secret of all is seat time at the track. At least for us novice types. And of course truly using ones brakes to the maximum capability is how a slower car with a knowlegable driver can really show up a faster car. You've probably done this as well where you take along a passenger and they really freak out as you head to the corner at full throttle only to max brake at the latest possible instant. Really stands the hairs on the back of my neck too, and I'm the driver!
Merril
Merril
82 GTV6 3.0
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Sporttunergtv6
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I am running Ferodo Premium pads front and rear.My front pads wear out twice as fast as my rears and haven't ever encountered boiling brake fluid and I only ever use Shell stuff you pick up at the petrol station!
My last track day I had no time before hand to replace my decidedly worn front pads or bleed the system from my previous track outing,so I had a rather long pedal for most of the day.Barry has convinced me to upgrade to a larger set of Brembos of the type found on the Integrale but I need to get the needed cash for that.I am currently running a 3.5 12v setup with Gotech which Barry is sorting out for me.The power hike over my 3.0 litre is substantial so my speeds down the straights at Zwartkops are far greater now thus stressing my brakes to a much greater degree than before.Barry took his 3.0 litre Giulietta out to follow me and was easily able to eat me up into the braking areas with his uprated Brembo's.Oh yes,I have now nicknamed him 'Sideways Henning',Barry sure can peddle that Alfa of his.
My previous track outing this year was weird.My brakes prior to going there didn't feel to great and I was really worried that they were going to spoil my whole day.I had my uncle out from California so I did not need this.But after a mere 3 laps the brake feel just transformed and even after a pounding racing my cousin in his 330 BMW,they felt fantasticaly strong on the road thereafter.This was with Shell fluid and Ferodo Premium pads as usual.All I can think of was the fact that my GTV6 had spent most of the previous 3 months stationary and I now 'cleaned' off the discs...
Long brakes notwithstanding,I was still able to lap more than 1 second a lap faster than another bloke their in his new Porsche GT3...made my day I can tell you and when a lady who had been out in said Porsche came for drive with me and said my GTV6 was the more exciting car to drive in my month was made...
My last track day I had no time before hand to replace my decidedly worn front pads or bleed the system from my previous track outing,so I had a rather long pedal for most of the day.Barry has convinced me to upgrade to a larger set of Brembos of the type found on the Integrale but I need to get the needed cash for that.I am currently running a 3.5 12v setup with Gotech which Barry is sorting out for me.The power hike over my 3.0 litre is substantial so my speeds down the straights at Zwartkops are far greater now thus stressing my brakes to a much greater degree than before.Barry took his 3.0 litre Giulietta out to follow me and was easily able to eat me up into the braking areas with his uprated Brembo's.Oh yes,I have now nicknamed him 'Sideways Henning',Barry sure can peddle that Alfa of his.
My previous track outing this year was weird.My brakes prior to going there didn't feel to great and I was really worried that they were going to spoil my whole day.I had my uncle out from California so I did not need this.But after a mere 3 laps the brake feel just transformed and even after a pounding racing my cousin in his 330 BMW,they felt fantasticaly strong on the road thereafter.This was with Shell fluid and Ferodo Premium pads as usual.All I can think of was the fact that my GTV6 had spent most of the previous 3 months stationary and I now 'cleaned' off the discs...
Long brakes notwithstanding,I was still able to lap more than 1 second a lap faster than another bloke their in his new Porsche GT3...made my day I can tell you and when a lady who had been out in said Porsche came for drive with me and said my GTV6 was the more exciting car to drive in my month was made...
"Racing is life,everything before and after is just waiting."- Steve Mqueen
The very last of the GT3's prior to this new one Porsche are due to release some time this year.That's what I love about track days,you get to put one over against cars you know full well would wipe the floor with you were they being driven by proper racing drivers,not that I claim any great skills on my part believe you me.
I have been beaten by one of our local production cars at Zwartkops and it was a 1300cc Daihatsu Sirion,which they claim performs like a 1600cc.This was with my 3.0 litre.I could out drag him down the straight but his Bridgestone track day tyres and radical production car suspension set up,saw him eat me up in the corners.Humbling experience.
I have been beaten by one of our local production cars at Zwartkops and it was a 1300cc Daihatsu Sirion,which they claim performs like a 1600cc.This was with my 3.0 litre.I could out drag him down the straight but his Bridgestone track day tyres and radical production car suspension set up,saw him eat me up in the corners.Humbling experience.
"Racing is life,everything before and after is just waiting."- Steve Mqueen