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junglejustice
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by junglejustice »

Michael wrote:Actually, the design is different. On my headers, the pipe exiting #1 cylinder is attached to the collector between the pipes for cylinders 2 and 3 - the pipes cross over one another. In the other design, the pipes are attached to the collector in the same order they exit from the head - no crossing over.
A matter of no consequence - if you were to ask me... Below is a picture of the same Kevin/Wildcat headers in SA on a car there from one of my first "engine-trips" back home 4 years ago and it too has the front primary crossing over into the middle of it all...
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Wildcat.jpg
Wildcat.jpg (83.33 KiB) Viewed 7344 times
...to Alfa, or not to Alfa? That is the question...
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by kevin »

Michael, JJ , the exhaust are made by he same chap(Mocambiquen) who worked for wildcat then moved to another exhaust shop. Thet all said it was to difficult to bring the three pipes down together so they crossed the one over the other. Subsequently we wanted to shorten the no1 and lenghten no3 and with a bit more effort he did it. Thats why they are two different types. The third type goes up and does a few twirls(equal lenght) but will not fit in a standard endine bay.
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Michael »

kevin wrote:Michael, JJ , the exhaust are made by he same chap(Mocambiquen) who worked for wildcat then moved to another exhaust shop. Thet all said it was to difficult to bring the three pipes down together so they crossed the one over the other. Subsequently we wanted to shorten the no1 and lenghten no3 and with a bit more effort he did it. Thats why they are two different types. The third type goes up and does a few twirls(equal lenght) but will not fit in a standard endine bay.

Hi Kevin:

Thanks for the explanation. The reason I was curious about the version I have is simply that I've not heard of other headers having the same problem and mine looked different enough that I wondered if this was the cause of the problems.
Good suggestion on cutting the flange, but the machine shop I turned to for help were somehow able to use a press of some sort to straighten out the flange enough that it could be machined flat without milling too much of the flange material away.

Barry is right - this project and many like it would not be feasible had you not invested the time and money into designing and building them - thanks :)

Cheers,
Michael
1981 GTV6
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by kevin »

Im glad you got them straightened. Offer still stands if you want to use other set. Its a pity a top brand like shankle wont make them on there cnc pipe bending machines. I have also chainged the jigs so the headers can be checked and clamped once they have been wellded to check for any distortion.
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Fernando »

Hi Michael, I am a long time user of Kevin's manifolds.Never had an issue with either the one used on my 12V 3.5 from Oom Div or the 3.6 Barry built for me.

On my 3 litre Glenwood Group 1 it was a Wildcat system most likely built by Kevins guy. :D

Good luck with the rest of your project and may the many smiles this engine puts on your face in the future,help you 'forget' the hiccups a long the way. :D
"Racing is life,everything before and after is just waiting."- Steve Mqueen
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Michael »

kevin wrote:Im glad you got them straightened. Offer still stands if you want to use other set. Its a pity a top brand like shankle wont make them on there cnc pipe bending machines. I have also chainged the jigs so the headers can be checked and clamped once they have been wellded to check for any distortion.
Cheers
Thanks Kevin - that is very generous of you!
I'll have the headers fitted this weekend (maybe even tomorrow) and will post here to let you know how they look now.

Thanks for the encouragement Fernando :D
Michael
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Michael »

The engine is almost ready to be installed now - all the worn out parts replaced, timing done and the belt tension set.
I was able to find the tools from Alfissimo (weighted arm) and the cam locks from a guy in England: http://www.totallyalfa.com/products.shtml
P1040048.JPG
P1040048.JPG (231.75 KiB) Viewed 6779 times
When I removed the cam caps to insert the cam locks (timing dies), I found that one of the steel locating collars is missing - this one is on the exhaust valve on #1 cylinder:
Missing part - steel collar which locates the cam cap
Missing part - steel collar which locates the cam cap
camLocat_collar.jpg (41.82 KiB) Viewed 6777 times
At that point, I checked all the other cam caps and did not find any other missing ones. What is this part called? How important is it to have, could I run without it ... any ideas where to get one of these or a part number?

I guess I could fabricate one - but need some 10mm OD steel tubing with the correct ID.
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by MR2 Zig »

Hollow dowel pin.....i think.

the inside diameter doesn't matter....just so the bolt clears.

The outside diameter you will want to measure with a micrometer to get the right size. The right size will likely be an even number, or an even number with a simple fraction....3mm, 4mm or 3.5mm, 4.5mm etc (i think that part is bigger than 3-4mm, just using for examples)

If you find one that is the right diameter , but is too long grind one end to get the right length and put that end down in the head. Secure it with some locktite if necessary (shouldn't need any).

These dowels are hard (bleeping) steel. I don't recommend using tubing or other mild steel.

hth,
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Mats »

MR2 Zig wrote: the inside diameter doesn't matter....just so the bolt clears.

Unless it's also an oil gallery, make sure you're not blocking the lube flow. :?
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by kevin »

Engine is looking good. Michael sometimes when you remove the cam caps the dowels stay in the heads. This is not a problem unless its where you want to put the cam blocks. Sometimes these dowels get damaged when trying to remove them . I have had this problem and have had no optionto put only one back. With your cam blocks on you can see the cut marks on the end of the cams are exaclty in line with the heads. I cant use cam blocks due to the cut of my cams GTA spec as there is still 'play' in the cam blocks so I just rely on those marks.As you can see they are 100% accurate. Once you get used to this assembly you wontuse these tools anymore. I hope you got longer bolts for the cam blocks to get enough thread into the head. Its a real bugger trying to put inserts in them while engine is still in car. When you finaaly put cam covers on you must put a bit of silicon where the red half round rubber seal meets the gasket. It always leaks there.
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by kevin »

Sadly i cant get gasket spares and have use the same old broken gasket many times but from this pics you can see where silicon is and also look carefully on back of cam for cut mark. The cut mark is 1mm thick so you must me exaclty on it. I have found 20hp difference in .5mm out on marks.
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Michael »

kevin wrote:Engine is looking good. Michael sometimes when you remove the cam caps the dowels stay in the heads. This is not a problem unless its where you want to put the cam blocks.

Hi Kevin:

I found that smallparts.com had something close enough:
Stainless Steel 316L Seamless Annealed Tubing 3/8" OD x .355" ID x .01" Wall
With a pipe cutter, I made a pretty good approximation of the original part.
Also, my cam locks were cut just the same as the cam caps - accommodating the steel sleeve.

Regards.
Michael
1981 GTV6
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Michael »

kevin wrote:...look carefully on back of cam for cut mark. The cut mark is 1mm thick so you must me exaclty on it. I have found 20hp difference in .5mm out on marks.
Huh - this is a bit of a dilemma. Fitting the cam locks caused the marks not to align perfectly for this particular cam - the others were almost spot-on the marks. I went with the positioning imposed by the cam lock since this is what the manual called for. You think I should use the mark in preference?
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Timing marks on the left head, intake cam
Timing marks on the left head, intake cam
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Michael »

Engine installed last weekend:
Engine installed
Engine installed
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Michael »

On to the next challenge.
I ran some tests to check that the fuel system did not leak - and it did - like a sieve. I assumed that the o-ring seals just needed to be replaced so removed and cleaned the injectors and replaced the o-rings but the problem persisted.
Here is an overall pic of the fuel rail setup:
Fuel rail - overall
Fuel rail - overall
fuel_rail_002.jpg (211.86 KiB) Viewed 6921 times
In this pic, you can see the problem - the o-ring seal on the top of the injector is exposed and this is enough for the fuel to spray out of the top:
Fuel rail - closeup
Fuel rail - closeup
fuel_rail_001.jpg (145.16 KiB) Viewed 6922 times
I have to assume that either the injector is wrong (too short), or the fuel rail is wrong (too distant from the head).
Fuel injector
Fuel injector
fuel_injector.jpg (157.37 KiB) Viewed 6920 times
The 'exposed' length of the injector is 45mm..

Does anyone know about this 0280156038 injector?
This seems to be a GTA injector from a later model 3.2:
http://www.alfanatiques.com/forum/viewt ... c&&start=0
Les injecteurs de série sont des 0280155746 (200cc@3bars, 16 ohms)
Les injecteurs de GTA sont des 0280156038 (229cc@3bars, 14.5 ohms)
(not too much in English to be found)

I could have a machine shop shorten the length of the fuel rail 'strap' to bring it closer to the head but then I'll always need to use the new injector style (injectors are untested). Also, would need to be very carefully done to make sure that the alignment of the injectors is maintained.
Buy new injectors? Other ideas?
Michael
1981 GTV6
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