Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
There is huge following of Saab, almost as fanatic as Alfa...
Trionic 7 is extremely common, I have one (in use). Probably more common in Sweden, in the Trollhättan area than the rest of the world though.
People have reverse-engineered it an I have a certified Saab-nut in the garage I'm in, he reverse engineered it himself but then got himself employed by Saab Powertrain so he never told anyone how he id it.
But there is plenty of hacks out there and the ECU has self learning ignition with knock-sensor and by measuring ion-blah-blah through the sparkplug.
Trionic 7 is extremely common, I have one (in use). Probably more common in Sweden, in the Trollhättan area than the rest of the world though.
People have reverse-engineered it an I have a certified Saab-nut in the garage I'm in, he reverse engineered it himself but then got himself employed by Saab Powertrain so he never told anyone how he id it.
But there is plenty of hacks out there and the ECU has self learning ignition with knock-sensor and by measuring ion-blah-blah through the sparkplug.
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
Adaptronic... Not self mapping in whole but it has auto learn and tune... You already have one as i remember Jim.
Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
And with capable noise filtering abilities that you set yourself in 500rpm increments.jamal555 wrote:Adaptronic... Not self mapping in whole but it has auto learn and tune... You already have one as i remember Jim.
Obviously you need to be able to listen very closely to the engine using either the knock sensor(s) as microphones (a feature of the current model Adaptronic's is a headphone jack for that very purpose) or a tube stethoscope.
Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
I sold my e420c but some time ago but I still have a couple of other capable ecu's. Being lazy about such things, I just wanted something to plug in,wire-in the std knock sensor drive the pi$$ out of it for a couple of hours in all possible conditions and have a perfect ignition map... One of these days....free or at least cheap...
Jim K.
Jim K.
Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
Ummmmmmm, yeah.............JimGreek wrote:I sold my e420c but some time ago but I still have a couple of other capable ecu's. Being lazy about such things, I just wanted something to plug in,wire-in the std knock sensor drive the pi$$ out of it for a couple of hours in all possible conditions and have a perfect ignition map... One of these days....free or at least cheap...
Jim K.
Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
A little update here... After lots of uphill runs and dyno pulls, it looks like the 2854 turbo is faithful to its compressor map 1.3-1.4bar (~20psi) is about the max, giving 220-225hp over a reasonable rpm range. I managed to have a lot of blowby after all this engine-beating, so I'm accelerating the plan. The GT2871R will go on this week and I'll see how it does. The map says its good for ~1.7bar (25psi) at 6krpm so I should see some decent numbers. I hope to be able to do the first runs end of week. Will get back with results.
Jim K.
Jim K.
Last edited by Jim K on Mon May 27, 2013 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
Jim you can't keep up us in suspense for a whole week . You need to accelerate bolting on the new turbo .
Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
A few years ago, I would probably do this switch at home, no problem. Nowadays, well... I'd rather sit in the garage and shoot the shit with the rest of the gang, while my mechanic is doing the work! Bunch of lazyass greeks, hahah! I called him and it looks like he'll be able to tackle it next Monday, as he's busy these days. Truth is, he'd rather work for paying customers rather than freeloaders... hmmm, maybe it makes good business sense!
Jim K.
Jim K.
Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
Hey Jim , what's the latest update with the new turbo
Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
Well-well, time for story-telling! As I said before, I was just about done testing with the GT2854R, which proved an excellent choice for a street/trackday modified 1.8T, with max 1.3bar (19psi) giving ~235hp at under 5000rpm and ~350Nm (253ftlbs) under 4500rpm. Next test was the same engine with the more potent GT2871R, which can supposedly take 1.8bar (26.5psi). It was bolted on allright and the engine started in the garage. Fan cycled on/off, everything checked and a friend who had left his car for a clutch job, drove the 1.8T home... he never got there, as he called me and said coolant temp was ~100*C... He stopped and found no coolant in the engine so he poured in ~4liters! His house was ~2km away and when he got there, he checked the oil and sure enough there was ~12liters of milkshake in the sump... He never even got a chance to use the new turbo! I went to his place with my garage buddy, drained all the crap out and pulled the head off. I noticed the head nuts were very easily removed, hmmm! The head gasket was a Nava O-ring type, the kind we always use in these engines. Since no catastrophic failure was immediately evident, we concluded its one of two things: lack of gasket retorquing (they thought I had done it at home and I thought they had done it in the garage... ) or failure of one of the lower liner rubber o-rings -for lack of another explanation until the engine is completely taken apart. Anyway, the engine is still in the car as we left it. I am currently finishing another good 1.8T for someone in the US. I built it from scratch, everything new, proper clearances, 8:1, different cams, porting, balancing, ceramic coating...the works. The 2871 will go on it and it will replace the headless engine possibly this week. I will initially run the std management with max ~0.8bar (12psi) for the break-in period, as I intend to take this car on my vacation. When I return, it will have ~1500km and will be ready for a proper map for higher boost and dyno.
Some pics:
Some pics:
Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
That sounds terrible, did the head survive?
Pistons without valve reliefs? Is that even possible?
Pistons without valve reliefs? Is that even possible?
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
he head will be pressure tested, otherwise it looks ok.
The camsfor the new engine are not radical, 10.4mm/284* intake and 10mm 264* exhaust. There's more than 2mm v/p clearance with head milled 1.5mm and 108* lobe centers.
Jim K.
The camsfor the new engine are not radical, 10.4mm/284* intake and 10mm 264* exhaust. There's more than 2mm v/p clearance with head milled 1.5mm and 108* lobe centers.
Jim K.
Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
Sorry to hear about other motor , be interesting to see what cause was . Nice pics of new motor . Wow you would think the valves touch by the pics but that's more an illusion .
Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
Did some more work today; getting close to completing the engine. Came accross a very serious Alfa screw-up: While with my degreed pulley on TDC and the TDC dial indicator in the spark plug hole everything lines up as expected, this particular 1.8T pulley is marked wrong! At TDC it sits smack on the 'F' mark, or in other words its a whole 7* off, the 'P' mark being 7* retarded!! I wonder how many engines have the same problem and how many are incorrectly timed as a consequence!
Here is today's pic. I closed some oilway exits and I used a large syringe to fill the oil cct, so when it starts up first time it won't be dead dry. In a V6 its easy to do as you can pull the gear off the shaft and run the pump with a power drill; not possible to do this in the 4cyl.
Jim K.
Here is today's pic. I closed some oilway exits and I used a large syringe to fill the oil cct, so when it starts up first time it won't be dead dry. In a V6 its easy to do as you can pull the gear off the shaft and run the pump with a power drill; not possible to do this in the 4cyl.
Jim K.
Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance
Wow! Nice engine, will have the Cosworth ECU or Coupe ECU? 300 bhp?
But what will you ACTUALLY ship the customer Jim? A bag of olives this time ? Haha
But what will you ACTUALLY ship the customer Jim? A bag of olives this time ? Haha