hey michael,
congrats on your engine! how much did all that work set you back and what's the current status?
regards,
streetfame
A couple of people have asked for updates on this project. The engine is still in-transit and has been for a while now. It was originally delayed slightly by a redesign of the plenum - Dawie apparently thought he could improve the performance with a slightly different design (larger plenum?). I don’t have much information on that but it should be clear once the engine arrived.
Its supposed to be here early next week - Jes' 3.2 liter GTA engine is coming in the same shipment.
I'll hopefully have some pics to share next week (else I'm going to be really pissed since the 1st track day is coming up soon - 16 April
)
Cheers,
Its supposed to be here early next week - Jes' 3.2 liter GTA engine is coming in the same shipment.
I'll hopefully have some pics to share next week (else I'm going to be really pissed since the 1st track day is coming up soon - 16 April
)Cheers,
Last edited by Michael on Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michael
1981 GTV6
1981 GTV6
Haha, no wonder Jes is not interested in the headgasket work.
My mom just bought a 156 GTA. I drove it around for quite a bit. The engine is a absolute CRACKER! And that was with a very poor exhaust manifold design. The exhaust manifold is only 2-3" long before it goes into a cat right in front of each cylinder head. I think with a good exhaust manifold the 3.2 will be have close to 280 bhp.
My mom just bought a 156 GTA. I drove it around for quite a bit. The engine is a absolute CRACKER! And that was with a very poor exhaust manifold design. The exhaust manifold is only 2-3" long before it goes into a cat right in front of each cylinder head. I think with a good exhaust manifold the 3.2 will be have close to 280 bhp.
Hey Guys:
This update is a little long in coming - I've been too busy and have lacked time to work on it.
Anyway, here is an update...
Pretty huh
Sweet...
The cam covers have been painted black with some "heat dispersant" paint and the oil filler relocated.
I received the engine in April - so far it looks good but there are some issues to deal with.
First and foremost, I was under the impression that this would essentially be a "bolt-in" ... "plug-and-play" type proposition, that I'd have it done in a few weekend of light effort. I especially thought this to be the case since the engine was fitted to a test car in South Africa and dyno tested - so my expectation was that all the wrinkles would have been ironed out during the installation in the car. This has turned out not to be the case though as there are a few issues I'll need to address before I'll be satisfied that its ready to install.
- Exhaust system. The engine came with a set of (really nice looking, coated) headers which had not been fitted to this particular engine. The header design makes it impossible to use conventional studs with nuts (indeed, half the studs are missing), so I had to spend lots of time researching alternatives. I came up with a good solution (I think) which are small Allen Head bolts with a really low profile/small head. This makes it possible to bolt down the headers to the cylinder heads. Once the engine is installed, I'll have to have the down-pipes custom-made - which is a bit unfortunate given that these should have been supplied with this engine. Glenwood did supply some generic mandrel bent pipes - but it would have been nice if they had supplied some pipes which actually fit a GTV6. This means that the car will have to be put on a trailer to make the trip down to the exhaust shop (probably Group 2 in Seattle) which will be quite an undertaking.
- Oil Pan attachment bolts. The conversion requires modifying the 164LS engine to mate up to the old GTV6 oil pan. This requires drilling extra holes in the 164LS engine. When the engine arrived, about half the standard bolts had been installed - meaning there were long sections where no bolts existed at all. I was told that it would not leak, but I was not content with this so I removed the oil pan again, replaced the gasket and used that to determine the correct locations for all the bolts, drilled and tapped hols as needed.
- Heater. No provision was made for a heater - the coolant lines were blocked off, this is probably OK in South Africa (though it gets bloody cold there in winter too) but I live in Seattle so will need the heater to work. Its not a big problem - I just need to find a way to adapt the larger 164LS pipe (see photo) to the smaller GTV6 heater hoses.
- Alternator. The 164LS engine uses a serpentine belt, so the old GTV6 alterantor will not work - the engine came with no brackets, nor provision for an alternator. I've since found out that a 164LS alternator will work and have purchased one. Hopefully Barry can help with a bracket?
- Fuel Supply. The engine was shipped without pressure regulator or damper. I will work something out for this (aftermarket adjustable pressure regulator?) but the fuel 'barbs' are particularly worrying to me. Check the photo's ... the suggestion was to use these as supplied - but it looks pretty dangerous to me since the tendency will be for the hose to slide off the 'barb' as the clamps are tightened (whereas a proper fuel barb has ridges and thus the tendency to prevent the hose from sliding off). Anyone have any ideas on getting correct barbs for this piece? I'm told that it impossible to find and fitting with the correct barbs.
- Intake plenum. The custom plenum supplied with the car did not fit - so a replacement is being sourced from a 164LS, modified to fit a GTV6. This item is still pending. I'll need to figure out all the intake plumbing too.
- Cooling system. It appears that the original hoses from the old coolant manifold to the heads were reinstalled - these are extremely prone to failure so I'll need to replace those. The engine was not fitted with a thermostat either so I'll address that at the same time.
Coolant manifold hoses.
Pulley alignment
Oil Pan bolts - header bolts
Fuel supply 'barbs'
Heater hose fitting.
In essence, I think it has great potential. What I've seen inside the heads and with the oil pan off looked first class (love those GTA cams
) and I'm sure it will run like a top. I'll post here and hopefully some of you guys will be able to advise me on addressing the various issues as I work through them.
Cheers,
This update is a little long in coming - I've been too busy and have lacked time to work on it.
Anyway, here is an update...
Pretty huh
Sweet...
The cam covers have been painted black with some "heat dispersant" paint and the oil filler relocated.
I received the engine in April - so far it looks good but there are some issues to deal with.
First and foremost, I was under the impression that this would essentially be a "bolt-in" ... "plug-and-play" type proposition, that I'd have it done in a few weekend of light effort. I especially thought this to be the case since the engine was fitted to a test car in South Africa and dyno tested - so my expectation was that all the wrinkles would have been ironed out during the installation in the car. This has turned out not to be the case though as there are a few issues I'll need to address before I'll be satisfied that its ready to install.
- Exhaust system. The engine came with a set of (really nice looking, coated) headers which had not been fitted to this particular engine. The header design makes it impossible to use conventional studs with nuts (indeed, half the studs are missing), so I had to spend lots of time researching alternatives. I came up with a good solution (I think) which are small Allen Head bolts with a really low profile/small head. This makes it possible to bolt down the headers to the cylinder heads. Once the engine is installed, I'll have to have the down-pipes custom-made - which is a bit unfortunate given that these should have been supplied with this engine. Glenwood did supply some generic mandrel bent pipes - but it would have been nice if they had supplied some pipes which actually fit a GTV6. This means that the car will have to be put on a trailer to make the trip down to the exhaust shop (probably Group 2 in Seattle) which will be quite an undertaking.
- Oil Pan attachment bolts. The conversion requires modifying the 164LS engine to mate up to the old GTV6 oil pan. This requires drilling extra holes in the 164LS engine. When the engine arrived, about half the standard bolts had been installed - meaning there were long sections where no bolts existed at all. I was told that it would not leak, but I was not content with this so I removed the oil pan again, replaced the gasket and used that to determine the correct locations for all the bolts, drilled and tapped hols as needed.
- Heater. No provision was made for a heater - the coolant lines were blocked off, this is probably OK in South Africa (though it gets bloody cold there in winter too) but I live in Seattle so will need the heater to work. Its not a big problem - I just need to find a way to adapt the larger 164LS pipe (see photo) to the smaller GTV6 heater hoses.
- Alternator. The 164LS engine uses a serpentine belt, so the old GTV6 alterantor will not work - the engine came with no brackets, nor provision for an alternator. I've since found out that a 164LS alternator will work and have purchased one. Hopefully Barry can help with a bracket?
- Fuel Supply. The engine was shipped without pressure regulator or damper. I will work something out for this (aftermarket adjustable pressure regulator?) but the fuel 'barbs' are particularly worrying to me. Check the photo's ... the suggestion was to use these as supplied - but it looks pretty dangerous to me since the tendency will be for the hose to slide off the 'barb' as the clamps are tightened (whereas a proper fuel barb has ridges and thus the tendency to prevent the hose from sliding off). Anyone have any ideas on getting correct barbs for this piece? I'm told that it impossible to find and fitting with the correct barbs.
- Intake plenum. The custom plenum supplied with the car did not fit - so a replacement is being sourced from a 164LS, modified to fit a GTV6. This item is still pending. I'll need to figure out all the intake plumbing too.
- Cooling system. It appears that the original hoses from the old coolant manifold to the heads were reinstalled - these are extremely prone to failure so I'll need to replace those. The engine was not fitted with a thermostat either so I'll address that at the same time.
Coolant manifold hoses.
Pulley alignment
Oil Pan bolts - header bolts
Fuel supply 'barbs'
Heater hose fitting.
In essence, I think it has great potential. What I've seen inside the heads and with the oil pan off looked first class (love those GTA cams
) and I'm sure it will run like a top. I'll post here and hopefully some of you guys will be able to advise me on addressing the various issues as I work through them.Cheers,
Michael
1981 GTV6
1981 GTV6
Mike,sad to see the engine was not complete,that can realy mess you around.
I will do the brakets for you for the alternator.no probs.
The barb on the fuel rail actaully unscrews and can be replaced with the proper thing.
A heater adaptor can also be made up to fit at the rear of the engine.
Cam timing marks,go check the GTA into 116 install trhead on gtv6.org..I posted pics for the cam timing marks.If you still cannot find them,mail me..
Other than that,enjoy your engine!!
I will do the brakets for you for the alternator.no probs.
The barb on the fuel rail actaully unscrews and can be replaced with the proper thing.
A heater adaptor can also be made up to fit at the rear of the engine.
Cam timing marks,go check the GTA into 116 install trhead on gtv6.org..I posted pics for the cam timing marks.If you still cannot find them,mail me..
Other than that,enjoy your engine!!
Last edited by Barry on Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hand fitting crank?
Can someone explain the procedure for hand fitting the crank mentioned in the motor description? Assuming the journels are correctly sized and the main bores are ok what do you do? Get a few extra bearing sets and try to match deviations so get uniform clearance?
-Tom P.
-Tom P.
) that the 24v tensioner was more reliable.-
Mezevenf
- Platinum
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:52 am
- Location: Gold Coast, Australia
- Contact:
Congrats Michael...
I basically had an identical experience, was expecting a drop-in and for everything to fit, but that was not the case. I had my exhaust place actually modify the headers to fit properly.
I had a few other gripes, but my motor was very budget so I guess thats expected.
I basically had an identical experience, was expecting a drop-in and for everything to fit, but that was not the case. I had my exhaust place actually modify the headers to fit properly.
I had a few other gripes, but my motor was very budget so I guess thats expected.
Bernard M (AKA Mef - Mezevenf)
1986 75QV 3.0L 24v V6 - Silver
1985 GTV6 2.5L 12v V6 - Red
1999 166 3.0L 24v V6 - Red
NightSpec
1986 75QV 3.0L 24v V6 - Silver
1985 GTV6 2.5L 12v V6 - Red
1999 166 3.0L 24v V6 - Red
NightSpec
I think it boils down to Dawie putting all the efforts into the internals - the engineering and manufacturing part, and perhaps less into the aesthetics. Basically, all "GO" and less "show". It probably has to do with his background in racing where only one thing matters: Does it go?
That is also how I look at the 3.7 - performance is what matters to me. Also, I do find it pretty, even in a somewhat raw/pure form without cosmetics.
Anyway, GET THAT THING IN THERE Michael and let us know how it runs. Can't wait to hear. Good luck!
Jes
That is also how I look at the 3.7 - performance is what matters to me. Also, I do find it pretty, even in a somewhat raw/pure form without cosmetics.
Anyway, GET THAT THING IN THERE Michael and let us know how it runs. Can't wait to hear. Good luck!
Jes
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
Hey Michael,
Mine had identical issues like yours and Bernard's. Haven't got it back on the road as I had the car completely resprayed and am busy putting it all back together.
Barry, I am interested in what you said about the cam belt tensioner as I too thought it looked a bit suspicious on mine.
Cheers
Mine had identical issues like yours and Bernard's. Haven't got it back on the road as I had the car completely resprayed and am busy putting it all back together.
Barry, I am interested in what you said about the cam belt tensioner as I too thought it looked a bit suspicious on mine.
Cheers
I personally prefer the offset tensioner bearing to be sdjusted in such a manner that the concentric is at its shortest towards the belt.
If that tensioner does happen to come loose(which they DO!)its bye bye valves an stuff.I have just had a 30l engine`s tensioner come loose on me for the second time! Ive now followed my own advice and modified it extensively..
I normally modify the 164 `s pre-tensioner so that it is now mechanical and has much more adjustemnt so the tensioner can be set up as above..
Alternatively,make a lock plate that will lock the tensioner in that position,irrespective of whether it comes loose or not.
Unfortunately every motor is slightly different so a one for all fix is not always possible.
First prize is the short concentric..second will be the lockplate ..
Now before this becomes a slinging match,let me state that in no way am I trying or have intensions of undermining Dawie here at all.
Im my book,Dawie is a trojan and much more clever and experienced than I ever will be.
Dawie has the balls to build and export these engines and is prepared to take the flack if theres a problem..
Im afraid I dont..
I admire the old bloke for what he has done and is capable of...
If that tensioner does happen to come loose(which they DO!)its bye bye valves an stuff.I have just had a 30l engine`s tensioner come loose on me for the second time! Ive now followed my own advice and modified it extensively..
I normally modify the 164 `s pre-tensioner so that it is now mechanical and has much more adjustemnt so the tensioner can be set up as above..
Alternatively,make a lock plate that will lock the tensioner in that position,irrespective of whether it comes loose or not.
Unfortunately every motor is slightly different so a one for all fix is not always possible.
First prize is the short concentric..second will be the lockplate ..
Now before this becomes a slinging match,let me state that in no way am I trying or have intensions of undermining Dawie here at all.
Im my book,Dawie is a trojan and much more clever and experienced than I ever will be.
Dawie has the balls to build and export these engines and is prepared to take the flack if theres a problem..
Im afraid I dont..
I admire the old bloke for what he has done and is capable of...
Re: hand fitting crank?
Tom,As long as the clearences fall within the spec . specified,and they measure as such,you are ok.tomp wrote:Can someone explain the procedure for hand fitting the crank mentioned in the motor description? Assuming the journels are correctly sized and the main bores are ok what do you do? Get a few extra bearing sets and try to match deviations so get uniform clearance?
-Tom P.
This normally is a procedure that I leave up to my machine shop as its a physical impossibility for me to do this as I dont have the grinders and lineborers to work with.
If its a race engine I usually go for a little on the bigger side of the specs..here again I chat to my engineering guys..
Use Plasti-gauge to double check your clearances..its a cheap and easy way of getting peace of mind..
-
Mezevenf
- Platinum
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:52 am
- Location: Gold Coast, Australia
- Contact:
And he is just great to deal with, such a nice guy and is always willing to help out his customers! I have had great personal experience with his customer service.Barry wrote:Dawie has the balls to build and export these engines and is prepared to take the flack if theres a problem..
Im afraid I dont..
I admire the old bloke for what he has done and is capable of...
Bernard M (AKA Mef - Mezevenf)
1986 75QV 3.0L 24v V6 - Silver
1985 GTV6 2.5L 12v V6 - Red
1999 166 3.0L 24v V6 - Red
NightSpec
1986 75QV 3.0L 24v V6 - Silver
1985 GTV6 2.5L 12v V6 - Red
1999 166 3.0L 24v V6 - Red
NightSpec