166 24v into 116 GTV

Jim K
Verde
Verde
Posts: 1719
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:10 am
Location: Athens,Greece

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by Jim K » Wed May 30, 2012 10:54 pm

0.95/1.15/2.7mm
User avatar
75evo
Verde
Verde
Posts: 821
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:56 am

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by 75evo » Thu May 31, 2012 7:09 am

JK,

If you don't mind I would like the posts on your 3.2 to go into a separate thread so we can keep track of all the important details. I think eventually I will go to a 3.2-3.5 24V. There is not enough gains for the money to go with a 3,0 24V.

I can move those posts for you and start a new topic if you don't mind.
Jim K
Verde
Verde
Posts: 1719
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:10 am
Location: Athens,Greece

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by Jim K » Thu May 31, 2012 7:34 am

Sure, no problem here, go ahead!
Jim K.
Tamariini
Silver
Silver
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:29 am
Location: Finland

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by Tamariini » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:10 am

kevin wrote:Just another pic of a 24v into a gtv. Nice intake .Interesting bodykit
Do you know what are those headlights? Looks actually very good!

And so does the engine bay :)
Attachments
tony3.7.jpg
tony3.7.jpg (84 KiB) Viewed 6906 times
- Alfa 75 3.0 V6 Turbo +300kw -
- Alfa 159 2.2 JTS Berlina -
- Alfa GT 1.9JTDm 16v -
- Alfa GTV6 3.0 V6 24v -
kevin
Verde
Verde
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:09 am
Location: Esher, UK

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by kevin » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:34 am

Tamariini , not sure where headlights are from . Its possibly aftermarket kits for a BMW or Golf from a shop in SA called Autostyle .

Some pics below of sump on 166 conversion into a GTV . Basically consists of two cuts and some baffles inside with plating each end . From the back of the sump to the second bolt hole the depth of sump starts at 15mm and falls to 26mm As per standard sump . Note these dims are for 3.0 while on 3.2 you need an extra 5mm as the rod bolt catches . By third bolt hole it has completely sloped in hence you can do vertical cut on the 166 sump here and it clears crossmember with space for exhaust to bend .
Some pics of standard sump alongside modified sump . Notice the shape is just followed .
Also recalibrate dipstick as mentioned previously as these motors sat at an angle . ( was a link to a thread on that somewhere ) .
Attachments
image.jpg
image.jpg (175.84 KiB) Viewed 6710 times
image.jpg
image.jpg (181.77 KiB) Viewed 6710 times
image.jpg
image.jpg (77.99 KiB) Viewed 6710 times
image.jpg
image.jpg (122.5 KiB) Viewed 6710 times
image.jpg
image.jpg (122.78 KiB) Viewed 6710 times
kevin
Verde
Verde
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:09 am
Location: Esher, UK

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by kevin » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:42 pm

This is an alternative to modifying the sump on the 166 as in pics above. By using a spacer between pan and sump there is enough clearance for the chain driven pump to fit . Its not the cheapest and easiest as its water jet cut from solid piece and you still have to do all the bolt hole mods and taps on the 116 sump to fit properly . It does look the part though . I had this piece made when I was in SA so it was relatively cheap there .
Attachments
image.jpg
image.jpg (185.57 KiB) Viewed 6578 times
image.jpg
image.jpg (185.57 KiB) Viewed 6578 times
User avatar
Terafrost
Gold
Gold
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:43 am
Location: Hobart, Tasmania (AUS)

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by Terafrost » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:52 am

Thanks for posting this, Kevin. I've just stumbled across a 166 for peanuts and I'm debating stealing the engine for a GTV6.

What are the chances you a lead on someone to perform this kind of work still? I can only imagine it costing a small fortune here in Australia.
Short of that, is there any way to modify the oil pump to fit a standard sump?
Alex

1985 GTV6
1983 GTV6 - Project
1985 ALFA 90 GCL - in many, many pieces... Anyone?
1987 ALFA 75 TwinSpark - Now running around Victoria.
User avatar
75evo
Verde
Verde
Posts: 821
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:56 am

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by 75evo » Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:57 am

what about ground clearance? The lower pan will stick down lower.
kevin
Verde
Verde
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:09 am
Location: Esher, UK

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by kevin » Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:02 pm

Both types of sumps are obviously lower thats why its very NB to run a sump guard . However -
You can make an adaptor which goes on the back of the chain driven oil pump . This is quite intricate , then after the adaptor you reroute the steel tubing of the pickup, after that the standard GTV sump fits as in pic page before . . I have seen it done but no pics .
The more I did this conversion the easier it became . I'm also looking at solution of not having to tap thread into block for oil filter instead you re machine the aluminium original set up ( ie the fwd castings etc) . It might not look pretty but saves time .
Will attach pic of the area or piece to machine down also pic to show sump guard next to custom sump .

Here are also pics of a custom sump pan made by some chaps in Bulgaria which is also a good alternative to spacer .
Attachments
image.jpg
image.jpg (70.67 KiB) Viewed 6438 times
image.jpg
image.jpg (73.54 KiB) Viewed 6438 times
image.jpg
image.jpg (97.34 KiB) Viewed 6438 times
image.jpg
image.jpg (119.88 KiB) Viewed 6503 times
image.jpg
image.jpg (200.86 KiB) Viewed 6506 times
Tamariini
Silver
Silver
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:29 am
Location: Finland

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by Tamariini » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:01 am

What ECU do you use in your setup? stock 166 3.0?

i have just finished my project with 166 3.0 24v engine transplant into my GTV6. I do have some issues still left to be solved and the biggest is lack of power :? car is slower than my 156 2.5 v6 24v...

so my question is, do you know if trigger wheel timing differs on 166 24v (trigger wheel 60-2 on the flywheel) to 164 24v (60-2 on the pulley)?

What i did was i used 164 24v (or GTV 2.0 v6 TB... don't remember where i took it off years ago.) trigger wheel with 164 24v front engine plate (with rpm sensor bracket) and stock 166 ecu + wiring harness and sensors. Engine starts, idles and runs great but the final "grunt" is missing on higher revs. low and mid rpm torque is ok. What i suspect is the timing of the ignition. Sensors (MAF, lambda, coolant temp) are all replaced with new ones and no fault codes are present.

any ideas?
- Alfa 75 3.0 V6 Turbo +300kw -
- Alfa 159 2.2 JTS Berlina -
- Alfa GT 1.9JTDm 16v -
- Alfa GTV6 3.0 V6 24v -
User avatar
75evo
Verde
Verde
Posts: 821
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:56 am

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by 75evo » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:01 am

Sounds like you need to put your car on a dyno and get all the vital data (AF, ignition timing, MAF voltage, etc, fuel pressure, compression, etc).

BTW did you triple check your cam timing? I just hate doing anything with 24V engines. I don't know how I'm going to deal with the 3.2 going into my 75. If it breaks a belt, I'll dump it and drive an E90 M3 :)
kevin
Verde
Verde
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:09 am
Location: Esher, UK

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by kevin » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:01 pm

Z , the cam timing is really easy on the 24v motors as all the marks are there .
Regarding the trigger wheel if using the 166 ecu there could be a discrepancy to how many teeth the after the Tdc position the gap is . The 166 takes it off flywheel while 164 takes it off front pulley . Even though your cam timing is correct your advance can be totally out . I assume your cam angle sensor is in as the ecu will not work . Maybe your car is running in " limp mode" .
Because i used and aftermarket ecu you program the number off teeth in . So all I can suggest is try compare at Tdc the number teeth from missing teeth to the pick up sensor from an original 166 flywheel to the front pulley .
. Can you not put mark on front pulley at Tdc and a reference on water pump or anything else around engine and then use timing light to check advance .
Tamariini
Silver
Silver
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:29 am
Location: Finland

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by Tamariini » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:21 am

75evo wrote:Sounds like you need to put your car on a dyno and get all the vital data (AF, ignition timing, MAF voltage, etc, fuel pressure, compression, etc).

BTW did you triple check your cam timing?
I will do that off course but i need to sort out this issue before i go to dyno. I don't wanna break anything.

Ignition timing is one thing i suspect but other is original gtv6 fuel pump. Is it enough for +220hp?

I have checked these already:
- cam timing
- maf voltage (also bought new one)
- fuel pressure is ok car standing still, i have no possibility to check it on the road under load
- compression is good on all cylinders
kevin wrote: Regarding the trigger wheel if using the 166 ecu there could be a discrepancy to how many teeth the after the Tdc position the gap is . The 166 takes it off flywheel while 164 takes it off front pulley . Even though your cam timing is correct your advance can be totally out . I assume your cam angle sensor is in as the ecu will not work . Maybe your car is running in " limp mode" .
Because i used and aftermarket ecu you program the number off teeth in . So all I can suggest is try compare at Tdc the number teeth from missing teeth to the pick up sensor from an original 166 flywheel to the front pulley .
. Can you not put mark on front pulley at Tdc and a reference on water pump or anything else around engine and then use timing light to check advance .
Yes, that's exactly what i'm suspecting. I can mark the TDC on the pulley and on the block but i have no timinglamp to be used with COP system. is there some available???
- Alfa 75 3.0 V6 Turbo +300kw -
- Alfa 159 2.2 JTS Berlina -
- Alfa GT 1.9JTDm 16v -
- Alfa GTV6 3.0 V6 24v -
Tamariini
Silver
Silver
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:29 am
Location: Finland

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by Tamariini » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:25 pm

I just noticed that injectors i use are not stock (at least i think so..) 166 3.0.

They have bosch number "0 280 150 701" stamped so they seem to be 164 3.0 injectors with 244cc/min flow.

What's the flow/number of original 166 3.0 injector? i added a bit of fuel pressure (to 3.5bar) and car feels much more lively :)
- Alfa 75 3.0 V6 Turbo +300kw -
- Alfa 159 2.2 JTS Berlina -
- Alfa GT 1.9JTDm 16v -
- Alfa GTV6 3.0 V6 24v -
KevinR
Platinum
Platinum
Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:46 pm

Re: 166 24v into 116 GTV

Post by KevinR » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:46 pm

Some pics of a Friends 75 with a 3.2 24v motor . Pics show options of bringing water pipes from the back . It's slighly easier in the 75 than the Gtv due to more room but still a nightmare if you change the thermostat . Might have mentioned before that if you skim heads the thermostat fitting does not fit properly and you usually have to apply sealant to stop water leaks . ( as you skim heads the angle changes hence the spacing of the housing at the back does not fit on smoothly . Only really worry when you skim to give over 12 :1 comp)
Attachments
image.jpg
image.jpg (145.09 KiB) Viewed 3242 times
image.jpg
image.jpg (128.27 KiB) Viewed 3242 times
image.jpg
image.jpg (126.4 KiB) Viewed 3242 times
Post Reply