ALFAGTV6.COM

[Mats]

You are right about the 2liter liners being a problem. The 1.8T has proven reliable here with almost 3bar (44psi) making 475hp on BP Ultimate pump gas and 550hp on race gas. 1.8T liners have split at 3.2bar (47psi). If you really want 2liters, you must definitely go to a monosleeve and you're looking at 1500Euros plus block machining. In the 2liter, you will also need forged pistons, while the 1.8T goes to 450hp with stock internalls. Is it worth it? In my opinion, no.
Jim K.

I don't get it. The 2 liter is not good because the 1.8 destroys itself over 3 bars of boost? What kind of an argument is that? Who in their right mind would EVER go to 3 bars of boost? Is there a turbo that can give you anything over 25% efficiency or something at 3 bar?
IMO you should get your head checked if you build an engine like that.

11% displacement increase shouldn't be turned down because "liners crack", Liners don't crack unless you do someting seriously wrong, usually pre-ignition or just BAD timing -> incredibly high peak combustion chamber pressures.

I'm building a 2 liter turbo and of course I'm doing it with forged pistons, again, who in their right mind just slap on a huge turbo and gets upset if the stock pistons fail? Are we talking cheapness monkey tuning or building a proper engine? Kolbenschmidt makes a great set of replacement liners for a very decent price. Why even considering using old rusty liners?

[jamal555]

while the 1.8T goes to 450hp with stock internals

I have a simple question... how long does that engine last?

i mean its always possible to get insane hp out of any engine... but how reliable would it be...

its pointless to have an engine that needs an overhaul every week... 200 km....

simply, what is the point of having an engine that lasts less than 10.000 km between major work on it?

i personally see no point in having a car i repair more than i drive... or cannot go out of the city or somewhere without worrying about car failing after 100 km... except if its a dedicated track car and will be driven more on a trailer than under its own power...

coz i guess we are talking about streetable car here... no1 makes that kind of a paint job and preparation to blast it around a track...

[Jim K]

Ease up guys! Who gives a f. what other people do to their cars? If they want to run 3 or 4bar, its their problem! The same guy who cracked the liner, is now building a 2liter which is already costing a lot. He is considering my advise of going for a monosleeve, which I think is the best solution for his power aspirations.
As for the 2liter vs 1.8liter: if you have a 1.8T, you have an engine already that can easily see 300 rwhp at less than 2bar (under 30psi) with stock internals. These engines have no problem at all in the track (correctly mapped Marelli management from 2wd Sierra Cosworth, Lancia Integrale or 155Q4) and they log great times, better than compressor equipped Alfa GT's 3.2's and 156/147 GTA's. At 1.8bar, they're even faster than a GT with a 3.7+Autodelta supercharger with ~325hp and a similar spec 4wd Brera (weight is a big factor with these cars as the particular 75 weighs 1160kg).
Anyway you see it, up to 2bar, for a 1.8T owner, these are cheaper to build than a 2liter and already available.
Jim K.

[Zamani]

300 bhp with stock heads and cams?

[Jim K]

Stock heads yes -although I will port mine during the build. Valve sizes can remain std. As for cams, for that kind of power you will need something like the old Gp1 (11mm lift, 290* seat, 245* @ 1.25mm or even a bit less will do) for intake and the 10548... in the exhaust. Larger injectors are of course required as is a modern snail from the GT28 series and upgraded mappable management. You can reliably select your own turbocharger following the various internet guidelines, for example: http://www.lovehorsepower.com/MR2_Docs/ ... w_maps.htm
A large radiator is a must at this stage if you plan track use. Not sure yet about front mount air/air IC or std position water/air unit with associated front rad+recirculator pump. It'll all clear up in the next few months though.
Next week, I'm replacing my old T3 with a GT2854R which has much better response from lower revs. After I play a bit with afr and advance, it'll hit the rollers and I'll know if it was money well spent. I believe that the daily driver's 210hp is about the limit for stock injectors and management, so I want to see how well and far this factory stuff will (?) work with the 2854.
Jim K.

[jamal555]

No...

thats all ok... i'm not telling anyone what to do with their cars...

my question was genuine, how long does motor like that last before any major rebuild... can u use it daily... can i go to work with it... or i must trailer it to track events and consider myself lucky if it lasts 5000km...

i'm in process of upgrading my 1.8t... and a difference at this point between going for 200 hp and going for 350hp is small because everything is going to be disassembled and rebuilt with new parts... injectors, ecu, turbo, intake-exhaust headers, lightening, balancing, head work, cams... the lot...

can this little 1.8t take 1.4-1.6 bar everyday without any major risk or its too much stress for it, or the safe fun stops at 1-1.2 bar...? for continuing use... like driving it every day... changing water and oil and just enjoy the drive... like u have wth 2.0TS... can it have that reliability at those power levels...

[Jim K]

YES, YES, YES, the 1.8T will take 1.3-1.5 every day in and out of traffic, passing, highway 'games' or trackdays. Last Saturday I did more than 30 all-out laps with ~22*C ambient, in sets of 4-5 each time (I do need a bigger rad but as its a daily driver it'll probably stay as is). A car like this, will be 100% reliable and 200% fun. The only prerequisite is a good build and definitely a 2-piece head gasket with O-rings, which will be safe for any pressure you want! I have been running 1.3 bar even 10 times every day for WOT testing in 2nd/3rd/4th up to 6200rpm, checking afr and listening for pinging. Besides this, there's the rest of the day when you can't help your right foot...
All in all, I firmly believe motor life will be normal, provided you treat it with respect regarding maintenance. It really is an everyday car as these cams are by no means wild. Idles rock steady at 850-900rpm. I get stuck in stop-and-go trffic twice a day and it behaves no different than the Hyundai! There's even a solenoid to increase idle when the a/c cuts in...100% civil; I can't emphasize more! Go for it and you'll have a wolf in sheep's clothing. I suggest you also upgrade the suspension and brakes for a complete package.
Jim K.

[Mats]

For those boosts it needs more fuel then the stock injectors/management can deal with.

Just wanted to mention it.

[Jim K]

Maybe for more than 1.3bar, because I think that stock injectors and management are at their limit. For this boost, I have adjusted pressure to 3.5bar (vac line disconnected) and afr plays around 11.5-12.5
The idea is to find how much streetable (daily driver) power we can make with the std stuff (= as cheap as possible!). With aftermarket parts, the sky is the limit. After repairing the T3 (coming Monday) I will carefully attempt a run at 1.5bar (22psi) but judging from the slight pinging at 1.3bar, I will have to reduce idle advance to around 2*BTDC, which will impair drivability at low revs-low load. I also suspect very lean afr, but we'll soon see.
Jim K.

[BradGTV]

some very good info.
if only we got the 1.8t in oz!
if i were to turbo a nord would the prefernce be a 1.8 or a 2.0?
also, would the "11mm lift, 290* seat, 245* @ 1.25mm or even a bit less will do for intake and the 10548... in the exhaust, could this be applied to a 2.0?
thanks, Brad

[Zamani]

Tempting. Because to pass inspection, I could pull out the turbo, just connect turbo manifold to exhaust via a custom exhaust pipe piece, put s heat shield, and voila, visually an N/A car. Then load in a N/A fuel and ignition map for the ECU. When the turbo is out, it becomes a low compression engine with stock-ish cam profile. I can EASILY make it pass the actual exhaust gas test. Yes, it's sort of a hassle come inspection time, but think about the highly strung V6. It will pass as is, but it's only a 220-230 bhp engine., To get to 300 bhp, you would be guaranteed to be categorized as a gross polluter with the amount of cams, and compression needed. That's what you get when you live in a state governed by Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[Jim K]

Brad, for up to 200-210hp, you can turbocharge the 2liter as it will take 0.6bar no problem, provided you lower CR. The cam info will do just as well for the 2liter.
Way back in '78, Shankle was offering a complete turbo kit which made a safe and reliable 203hp @6300rpm and 203ftlbs @ 4500rpm. Among other parts, the kit included 7.8:1 forged pistons, a special distributor with retard feature and a single progressive 45DCOE carb!
Liner strength for higher boost would favor the 1.8 Nord, although you'd still need pistons. All in all you're better off with a proper 1.8T engine to start with:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Alfa-Romeo-75-1-8-Mo ... 230b36547c
It specifies pickup but maybe something could be worked out with the guy, if someone was interested.
Z, turbo on/off sounds like a lot of trouble! Most properly mapped turbo cars will pass exhaust tests!
Jim K.

[Maurizio]

http://cgi.ebay.de/Alfa-Romeo-75-1-8-Mo



guess who was already keeping a serious eye on this particular engine for the past couple of days. It's only 723 km's from my place

[Jim K]

There's your chance Maurizio! Buy it and I'll be helping you with it from here with anything you need! I can even bring you small stuff at the Ring!
Replace the V6 engine with this (after a good rebuild) and THEN visit the Ring...
Jim K.

[Maurizio]

Replace the V6 engine with this (after a good rebuild) and THEN visit the Ring.

I run a ts, so I'm thinking of camouflaging my lack of talent with more horsepower