4-cylinder turbo performance

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fedezyl
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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by fedezyl » Tue May 17, 2011 5:18 pm

Giuliettaevo2 wrote:This evening i collected a 75 Tb engine short block, a 75 Tb gearbox and some Tb parts like intercooler, exhaust manifolds and an ecu and AFM for the total amount of 77 euro's ( 6 crates of beer :lol: ).

I alway's regretted selling my own Tb engine a few years ago so i now have a new chance. :)

The cylinderhead that came with the engine is cracked and all the stuff lik valves and cams is transplanted into an 1.8IE head. They measured both heads up and they were identical apparently. :) They only miss the letter "T" on the stamp. :wink:

Now i'm thinking about what car to put the engine in... damn i need another Giulietta for it. :twisted: I have a nice turbo from an Mitsu Evo 7 lying around, as well as some bigger injectors and stuff, would make some nice power with that i guess. :P

77 euros is definetely a very good deal huh!

If you need a Giulie to put the engine and GB in I have one over here that could use the parts! heheheh
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Maurizio
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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by Maurizio » Tue May 17, 2011 9:37 pm

8) great deal, I read the offer to late.... there was already a queue of people for it...

I almost could kick myself for not being on a pc \ the dutch forum this weekend.

btw found another super rare alfa turbo bargain, but I'm not sure it is a 4 cyl :mrgreen:
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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by Giuliettaevo2 » Sun May 22, 2011 2:44 am

In addition to the 1.8Tb for 77 euro's i picked up a 164 3.0 24v engine for 50 quid yesterday... :D

I bought it off someone who had it laying around for years. He bought it as a damaged engine to use as a trial-fitting engine to make it fit/work in his 75. He never had the time to actually put any use to it so decided to sell the car and all the parts. The buyer for the car had no use for the engine so that was offered to me for scrapmetal price. :P

Yesterday i got a call that i could come get it. I took the engine home with me and started looking what the damage was. the oil that came out was all mayonaise-like, brownish thick slime. So there is a coolant-oil conflict at least.. :roll:
After pulling the oilpan i found a few large bits of aluminium laying in there. That seems to be the underside of piston nr 1 on the left bank :shock: . I pulled the leftside head and found the valves are allright on first side. No imprints on the pistons or any visual damage to the valves. So at least i have some good spare parts for my own 24v engine now. :)
Closer looking at piston nr 1 showed that the piston could be tipped over in the bore by half a centimeter :shock: . The complete pistonskirt must be missing. I drilled a small hole in the piston and put a screw in it to try to pull it out but it was still connected to the rod. that's probably why the head is still intact. :) Then i saw the reason for the oil-coolant mix... a big crack going from the top off the liner right to the end. :shock: Never seen or heard of this kind of damage before. :?

But still a nice buy for the 50 bucks... :mrgreen:

The Tb engine will probably end up getting bastardized with an 1.8IE engine to create a "new type" engine with 60-2 sensor and intake stuff. There are some big red Bosch injectors lying around here and the turbo off an Evo 7 has also been put aside. 8) IC up front offcourse and some MS2 to control fuel and timing.. 8)
Drive it like you stole it...
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MD
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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by MD » Sun May 22, 2011 2:51 pm

Great to see there are still some crazy fruit loops of this Forum that like a challenge.
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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by WhizzMan » Mon May 23, 2011 11:07 pm

Ah so that's where the parts went. I'm being strict to myself, no new personal projects until I finish at least 2 of the 3 I have standing outside the workshop. Otherwise, I'd have been all over that lot myself.
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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by Jim K » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:58 am

Ok, time to maybe revive this thread with some new info. The street 1.8T has done fine so far and couple of months ago I upgraded to the GT2854R turbo from the std T3. The new snail was accompanied by its port-matched evo cast iron manifold. Manifold and turbine housing were ceramic coated locally. Following installation, I had to do some minor adjusting of spark advance, having to set it at ~1*BTDC to avoid pinging! Unfortunately, there's no flexibility in the ignition ecu to map what you need. So, trying to eliminate mid/hi rpm pinging, you end up with way less than proper advance at low rpm. However, this was the original idea, to see the best you can do with stock electronics and a modern turbo. Thus, fuel pressure is set at 3.7bar (vac disconnected) with the stock injectors, so that afr will be ~11.5:1 at max boost of 1.2-1.3bar. The difference with the new turbo is impressive on the dyno. Unfortunately the dyno printer suffered a glitch and at the same time the fuel pump decided to act up on me, so we only got a reading up to ~4500rpm, but this was the range I was mainly interested in. Here are some numbers showing gain from the std turbo:
Torque:
2500σαλ.....+15Nm
3000..........+33
3500..........+55
4000..........+50
4500..........+27
Max torque: 358.7Nm @ 4150rpm

Power:
2500σαλ...+7hp
3000........+13
3500........+27
4000........+30
4500........+17
Max power (up to 4500rpm) 220hp @ 4350rpm


This concludes my dealing with std management. Next step, is installation of the very capable P8 ecu from the Fiat Coupe 16VT along with its harness and bigger injectors. This is the final upgrade and one which has proven able to easily exceed 300hp in these engines at 1.6-1.8bar boost. Time will tell.... :roll:
Jim K.
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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by 75evo » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:26 pm

JK, why no water injection or cooling mist? Won't that help combat detonation?
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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by Jim K » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:41 pm

I just wanted to see what the std management is good for by itself. Using what you describe would help but would not change the advance inherent shortcomings. Besides, a good water injection system costs as much as the P8 ecu and harness! With these, I can maximize engine capabilities and IF anything MORE is required, we have the option to go your way. Personally though, I can't see wanting to go over a max of 300hp, a level which will bring humongous torque with it! The car will double as a trackday/road car so I'm setting the arbitrary max limit of 300hp which -as I've said before- is way short of what we've seen these engines put out over here. If need be, I already have the GT2871R around which will more than suffice for my chosen figure without sacrificing low end response.
Another choice would be to go with the programmable MSD 6AL-2 ignition. This would take over the ignition task and we could still use the std fuel ecu. Actually, this is the most cost effective modification and would result in greatly improved fuel economy and driveability.
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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by Mats » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:27 am

You didn't run it to 5000rpm even? Why? That is the biggest fail with the stock engine, the utter choking effect at 5000rpm and up. It's like it's designed to tow caravans...
Imagine to extrapolate that torque curve to 400Nm and limit it until it starting to fall at 6500rpm instead, that would be a fantastic engine to drive both fun-wise and speed-wise. :D
Of course it would mean some modifications to intake and exhaust but that's not a problem, right? :wink:

The DTA(?) P8 will be a great add-on on this engine I think, you will probably be able to get more power with less boost...
Then replace the useless stock cams and unlock the revband sweetness... :D
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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by Jim K » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:39 pm

I couldn't go past 4800 because of the fuel pump, but I. Will try again in a few weeks time. I would never use the std cams either. I have a very good intake cam and we will see about the exhaust, which can be a 10548....
Jim K.
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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by Mats » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:00 pm

Ok, better cams but it still chokes at that low rpm? What have you done wrong? ;)

I had a schnitzel for you at the Ring btw. I ate the whole thing just as you would have. :lol:
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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by Jim K » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:44 pm

No schnitzel now, I'm having huge steaks in Toronto! :wink:
I'll solve the over-4800 problem when I get back.
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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by Greg Gordon » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:57 am

Well, I am having Schnitzel in Morbach Germany right now. It's awesome.

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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by Maurizio » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:13 pm

Greg Gordon wrote:Well, I am having Schnitzel in Morbach Germany right now. It's awesome.

Greg


Enjoy your schnitzel!
btw: :shock: then you are only ~88 [km] from the nurburgring! http://goo.gl/maps/QH2m
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Re: 4-cylinder turbo performance

Post by Murray » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:00 pm

No schnitzel now, I'm having huge steaks in Toronto!
Ok Jim you're here now why not stay and avoid all that nastiness back home :D Canada could certainly use a local Alfa Guru to improve the breed.You're welcome to come and tweek my GTV6 Rosa anytime you want (hope she's not listening)
By the way Montreal has some nice thick juicy steaks as well but you probably already know that :wink:
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