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kevin
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Dipsticks and conversions

Post by kevin »

I have seen some chaps lately blowing oil straight out of there dipsticks to only find their problem is they have the wrong dipsticks in the motor. This normally happens on conversions when using modified sumps ie Alfa Sei sumps cut when shortage of standard GTV 6 sumps and when doing the 24v conversions.
Whats interesting is when comparing dipsticks the rainge between MIN and Max varies quiet substantially as in pics below. This is not really a huge problem on the road but wait until you on the track and the oil is swishing around .
I have found that the standard GTV 6 sump takes 6 litres to Max without filter and 7 Litres with filter (Z96 -large filter).
Question is what clearence should there be between the bottom of crank and top of oil as the three dipsticks alow for a big variation of oil. Yes I know there are diffent throws from the 2.5 to the 3.2 but the 3.0 24v and 3.2 24v differ considerably.
Just a topic for discussion and input.
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ar4me
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Re: Dipsticks and conversions

Post by ar4me »

Related to that: The length of the dipstick tube mounted to the block also influences how deep the dipstick sits. I saw this when putting the 12v 164S engine in my Milano race car. Another issue is that the engine sits level in the transaxle cars, but at an angle in the front-wheel drive cars (if I recall correctly). This is all more related to the absolute level than the min-max distance.
Jes
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
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MD
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Re: Dipsticks and conversions

Post by MD »

Kevin,

Barry always did say you had a short dipstick.. :mrgreen:
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kevin
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Re: Dipsticks and conversions

Post by kevin »

MD, better start some compliments - could be living in your country sooner than you think :o ps have you had your micrometer recalibrated lately !
Jes, some things I checked today : The MAX mark on the 12v GTV is +- 40mm from bottom block while the 166 24v is 15mm from block . Both taken on level.
Jes just shows how much influence the angle has with the front wheel drive motors.
As a rule I always used the Min on the 24v's as the Max when running in transaxles.
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MD
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Re: Dipsticks and conversions

Post by MD »

Hahaa Kevin,

Fat chance you getting in Kevin.You gotta have an I.Q. level of at least a chicken.That's why they wont let JK in. :D :D

Anyhow, I don't see the problem even though it is an excellent issue to to discuss. My approach would be to use the factory spec for the engine capacity,fill the sump,run the motor,let the oil settle o/night and mark the oil level on the stick with a saw cut as the new oil level mark.

See Kevin, even a chicken can understand that.. :D
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GarthW
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Re: Dipsticks and conversions

Post by GarthW »

Opon the fresh stack of eggs i've just recently laid, what you mean MD..? :lol: :roll: :)

So Kev, you heading down under..? :o

If so, and whilst you are here, some will be addressing you as Kev, which i have just done, or kevo. Or a chick might say, oi, kevvie. :P


Now me recently, i started to notice oil, tiny drops of it building on the heat shielding of the manifold, directly beneath the oil filler cap, and realised...derr, that oil was leaking from there... :shock: -hehe so shocked lol....anyway, got a replacement rubber seal for the oil cap, and no more oil leakage there. Had to realise the old one was 25 yrs old also.

So..has anyone here ever bothered to change their round rubbery donut shaped oil filler cap sealer gromit type thingy with another, otherwise known as...a round rubbery donut shaped oil filler cap sealer gromit type thingy..? :wall: :lol:
Image

Selling 1985 GTV6.

Ecu and injectors, lightened.....plays music.
kevin
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Re: Dipsticks and conversions

Post by kevin »

Md, to late you guys accepted me anyway. Just waiting for you guys to relax a few laws on driving to the race track in the track car !

Garth on the later caps you sometimes need to retention the spring plate inside it with a new o ring.

Alot of people get the dipsticks wrong on their 164 's 24v's (black top) while replacing it with the yellow top from the modern generation 24v's (chain driven pumps). I guess at least we have covered a topic for reference so when someone blows all the oil out the breather and dipstick its can be one of the checks on the list.
kevin
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Re: Dipsticks and conversions

Post by kevin »

''re-tension '' or isit with out the ''-''
la_strega_nera
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Re: Dipsticks and conversions

Post by la_strega_nera »

kevin wrote:Md, to late you guys accepted me anyway. Just waiting for you guys to relax a few laws on driving to the race track in the track car !
Some states - not qld afaik - have a race/rally registration which lets you do this.
Alternatively, don't drive like a cock and find a "friendly" rego dude and do like a mate of mine - drives his fully stickered mx5 race car to the track and back. He's in a street tire class - a slick shod class might be less fun.
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Zamani
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Re: Dipsticks and conversions

Post by Zamani »

la_strega_nera wrote: Alternatively, don't drive like a cock
That should be no problem as he doesn't drive a BMW. :mrgreen:
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ar4me
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Re: Dipsticks and conversions

Post by ar4me »

MD wrote: Anyhow, I don't see the problem even though it is an excellent issue to to discuss. My approach would be to use the factory spec for the engine capacity,fill the sump,run the motor,let the oil settle o/night and mark the oil level on the stick with a saw cut as the new oil level mark.
With all kinds of non-stock oil-holding items on a race car, e.g. oil cooler, accusump, significant amounts of oil-lines, it quickly becomes impractical to determine exact amount to fill based factory specs...

Oops, sorry, this thread is not in the race car section... Though, you could still be running non-stock oil-cooler on a street car.

Jes
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeat or do as I say at your own risk - be critical)
kevin
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Re: Dipsticks and conversions

Post by kevin »

Jes, (Engine type 1)I know 6liters is max without starting on GTV116 sump thus I fill the 24v motor with 6liters and remark dipstick . Then start up, fill coolers etc then top up.
(engine type 2)I know how far the origional dipstick sticks below block on the 116 series so on the custom sump 24v motor(chain driven pump) I marked the depth and measure sump. This is done before sump is bolted to engine. A bit of a process but when engine is out its easy.
On this sump it is 8liters without starting.
Confusing to topic to those who have not done this but at least to be aware of these issues.
Bottom line the standard protrusion of origional 116 series di;pstick below block is always used.
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xrad
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Re: Dipsticks and conversions

Post by xrad »

you could use thigh markers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pcqVQe-4z0
martin72
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Re: Dipsticks and conversions

Post by martin72 »

Might someone know long the tube is where you insert the dipstick on a GTV6?
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