grant
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Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by grant »

Hi guys,

I have a really nice LS that is due for a t-belt service. (Used to be Nizam's 164 Super).

I have been looking into GTA cams but for the price (1000 USD) it is pretty hard to justify. Are there any more reasonable alternatives if I just want to replace the intakes?

Thanks!
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75evo
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Re: Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by 75evo »

Any grind as long as lift at TDC doesn't exceed 1.1mm should ensure good idle quality. Oh and lift is sort of limited too due to the casting of the valve lifter area, and lifter size probably.

Wait for JK's reply. If you buy his book for the V6 he has some suggested lobe configurations. I doubt his Clio grind will allow the car to pass CA Smog.
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Re: Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by grant »

It doesn't have to be a re-grind, billet is OK if it is worth the hassle and several hundred less than OEM GTA cams. What about used? Anyone know a good source for GTA cams second hand?
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Re: Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by AlanV6 »

I recommend AHM regrinded cams. I have them in my engine and they are great. Idle gets a little lumpy (well it depends how you set them- i have them set at 106° max lift) middle range is quite the same as stock, but from 4500 rpm onward engine just want to rev more and more.
Cant say what's the total gain as i have some other mods and ecu wasnt remaped (in my country is hard to find a good remaper)

http://www.ahmotorsports.co.uk/index2.htm
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Re: Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by Jim K »

AHM price is ~$740 US +shipping and VAT, which will probably come to a total of ~$960... :shock: Hmmm, my grinder here wants 600€ for a set of cams ground and nitrided to some M3 profile, so that's not bad at all! To be fair and objective though, price comparisons between countries should also take into account financial standards...600€ for someone making 2000€/month, is twice as expensive than for someone making 4000€... Most people seem to forget this when talking prices!
Having to satisfy emissions is a difficult task and I have no idea how we can evaluate different cams.... :?:
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Re: Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by grant »

Is it worthwhile to change all 4 cams? I'm mainly interested in the GTA cams because they reportedly help the low and mid-range a fair amount...I'm guessing mostly because of the extra overlap.

If the intake ports are too large on the 24v 3.0, what about the exhaust ports? How important is swapping the exhaust cam out too?
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Re: Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by Jim K »

I don't know anyone who has played with various 24v cams, except possibly Kevin, as he's had these engines for some time now. I've only run my engine from the start with the Renault Clio Williams grind, not even trying the std 24v 3liter cams! My first concern before I try any timing changes is to make a set of adjustable cam pulleys, so that timing changes can be very quick and easy. Maybe in a few months... :roll:
Changing only two cams is not in my plans so far.
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Re: Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by Tim0172 »

I have à set of intake GTA cams i'm willing to let go,They are used and done About 75000 km in the engine.
If you are interrested let me know...

Regards,
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Re: Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by grant »

For strong performance Jim, I agree with you. But it seems like a simple and popular quick drop in is to use the inlet cams from GTA only. I know from personal experience you don't want to over do one end of the cycle over the other..


Timo,

Please send me an email to hendrickstrading at gmail dot com
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Re: Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by AlanV6 »

It cost me litlle less than 700euro for AHM regrind and shipping.
I think it's worth it.
Just GTA cams are really a small change for not so small money.
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Re: Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by grant »

This is for a daily driver....120miles every day of driving, with traffic. I don't want to make the low end or mid-range any worse! I doubt AHM will have a cam for what I want to do...

I have 284 duration cams in my 20V toyota engine, nothing is going on below 4000 rpm :twisted:
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Re: Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by grant »

Also, just for curiosity's sake, how are the oem 24V headers? Any good? Would there be an advantage to moving the last 2-1 collector further down the exhaust stream? (lengthening secondary length).

For you guys making 270hp or more, do you still retain the OEM header?
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Re: Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by 75evo »

Doubt the collector placement will give any meaningful hp gains...BUT...if the pipes were equal length (front and rear bank downpipes), the sound will be more RWD like. Just look for Alfa V6 equal length on you tube.

As for cams, I think if you can get GTA-esque regrinds for a good price, go for that. Our 164 Supers are road cars which have to pass emission test. I'm not willing to mess around with it too much.

My car has EGR, maybe it is cleaner than your 164 Super.
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Re: Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by Jim K »

I think the best exhaust is the long headers shown elsewhere here by Gatouille in France. If you're after serious performance, that's one of the main ingredients.
For cams, if you have a grinder with an extended library of profiles, it may be worth paying a visit and checking out what is available and what fits in the 24v.
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Re: Alternative to GTA cams for road use in 3.0 24V?

Post by grant »

Z,

Increasing secondary length should decrease peak HP, but would tilt the torque graph clockwise around the point of peak torque I think.

And yes, I am definitely not trying to build a monster, just something with a bit more balls to keep up with newer machines a bit.

Also this particular 164 passed with flying colors (like 20th percentile of max or something like that) If there is a problem, retarding the intake cam should bring thing back to where they are.

Jim,

Any risks to using re-grinds? I have always been told to stay away from smaller base circles but I have never actually tired regrinds before, just new sticks in the past.
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