Jim K
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by Jim K »

Thanks Fernando,
There will be a 24v and 1.8T book but not 24v turbo -unless I get loads of detailed and reliable info for a complete working package from someone who has done a proper job (one that hasn't blown up yet!) and wants to share it with readers.

Jim K.
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by maxiboy »

Im so looking forward to the dyno time...

thanks for this thread.. highlight of the week when i see new posts here
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by KevinR »

Hi Jim ,
What's news on your motor ? Here's a question for you while on subject of 3.2 's What would you expect in hp from a 3.0 12v fitted with a 3.2 crank , custom Pistons with about 10.5 compression , c&b fast road cams , ported runners , and let's say equal length manifolds .
My mate in SA has done this on two carb 3.0 motors but never got dyno results . All he says it was very strong . Now those heads on the carb motor ( alfa six heads) are not as " efficient" as the 75 3.0 heads . I was thinking about 250hp , is that fair ?
Cheers
Jim K
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by Jim K »

We're then talking about a 12v 3.2liter engine. Seeing I got 236hp out of my 12v 3liter, it wouldn't be far off to assume that a similar engine with 3.2liters would play around the same hp/liter figure. Therefore: 236/3 = 78.7hp/liter x 3.2liters = 252hp. Compared to the 24v, I would expect the 12v to be much stronger up to ~3500rpm. From then on its multi-valve territory.
My 3.2 was hit with a gremlin that took me about a week to figure out. After the new harness it worked fine for a couple of weeks and then, one morning it wouldn't start. After wiggling the wires some, it would finally start but I didn't trust it to drive away with. Called the guy who made the harness over and he finally found a wire in a weatherproof socket that was pulled almost all the way out and barely made contact. Fixed it and the bugger still wouldn't start.... The problem was finally traced to the NEW crank sensor which was intermittent! TWO problems together? Put the old sensor back and all ok. Like the man said...shit happens! :roll:
I'm waiting for the exhaust shop to call me in so that he can make three 24v header sets, one for my 3.2 and two for a couple of guys in Australia. After that, I will finally map/dyno -if nothing else goes wrong until then!
Jim K.
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75evo
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by 75evo »

Jim,

What sensor do you have? The crank sensor on my 156 3.0 is flaky. I looked into a few options and was told not to get anything but the OEM unit by BOSCH. I saw some cheaper ones, from Europe, but the cam and crank position sensors are too important to skimp on.

For 75 I think the Autronic uses a Honeywell GT101 sensor which has been 100% reliable for 11 years so far!

There must be a Bosch alternative, probably one from Honeywell will do if the voltage threshold levels are met.
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by KevinR »

Thanks Jim for reply , I'm glad you were thinking the 250 mark . Just looking at piston suppliers to go with . Probably Wossner at this stage .
You must have been going nuts searching for that gremlin . On the Powermods ECU I use i can switch between the Bmw sensor and Alfa 164 sennsor with no issue . I once use an Opel sensor but the trigger wheel must pass it at the correct direction unlike the other types . This direction was set up to be tangential to where the lead comes out of . Point being that certain Bosch sensors are specific to how they are mounted .
Jim K
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by Jim K »

I originally had a Bosch sensor on and when I thought it was at fault, I bought the FACET equivalent for the 164 24v engine. Well, that crapped out in 2-3 days and I'm back to the old Bosch part. The Facet cost 29€, don't know how much the Bosch is, may ask around today. The local story is that these sensors in 156/147 cars fail VERY often and there were times when local stores couldn't order them fast enough! :shock: As for Facet, they are a serious joint, with a good name and track record on all kinds of replacement electrical parts. It will take a lot of driving time to convince myself the car is reliable now... must not drive too far from home... and carry tools and some spare parts along!

Jim K.
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by KevinR »

Jim , I don't think you have to worry about the sensor . Bewteen my dad and I we have probably covered 1 mil Kms with the 164s and 156 etc and the only sensors that packed in were the ones which rubbed against the auxiliary belt as the plastic clip that holds cable was not put in after its service . So that's not the sensors fault . However the sensors I do know that we're faulty were new ones and it seems that when there sent back they probably get recycled out again :D
Once you got one that's functioning you won't have to worry again .
Jim K
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by Jim K »

Well, I'm back with the old sensor and everything is ok. The one last thing I want to try now is to swap the connections around from the two O2 sensors (left/right bank) to see if it makes a difference. You see, there is NO info anywhere on which sensor (left/right) goes to what ecu pins. It works both ways but I assume when paired correctly, afr's will be more stable. Care for some other details? Note the engine has not been mapped yet. With engine warm (BEFORE the fans turn on) I've set idle to rock solid 1krpm. When the two fans start, idle cycles from 900-1050rpm IN TUNE with afr cycling from ~12.5-13.7:1 (remember, not mapped yet). I suspect it may have something to do with the fans high current draw, but I'll wait until mapping and see what happens.

Jim K.
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by maxiboy »

Any updates... i,m getting withdrawal symptoms
Jim K
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by Jim K »

Hahah, you can blame the weatherman for this, plus the fact that I'm away on vacation from today and will be back end of the month. Talked with the dyno/mapper yesterday and we decided to do IT sometime in September. In the meantime, all is well with the two gta fans, even in this summer heat. Truth is, I drive it very little. I use the 1.8T instead for short trips -besides the Hyundai family 'workhorse'. Don't worry, the project ain't dead just yet!
These last few months -on and off- I've been looking to improve flow in the 1.8T heads and I've made good headway. The final outcome along with full engine builds will be part of the new book on 24v and 1.8T engines. NO dates yet so don't ask. I still say, if the 1.8T was made available to more markets, there would be far fewer V6 owners... 8)

Jim K.
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by maxiboy »

Enjoy you holiday ... need to get my fix from somewhere
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by SydneyJules »

Enjoy your holiday!
You're spot on... I'd have a 1.8T any day of the week...
Fixing it bit by bit....
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MD
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by MD »

Hey Greaser, don't let that Sydney Jules anywhere near that turbo job of yours,he'll scream it to 10 grand in reverse just to get it outta da garage! A villian of the first order... :D

I know all about intermittent looms mate. Remember when I was chasing a shut down at 3.5Krpm at the track but the car redlined at 7 on the dyno without problems? I spent three days undoing my immaculate new loom to find two problems.1 Loom reticulation too close to injectors.2 Some twitt set the interference filter on maximum. The consequence was barely a signal for the ECU to work with and chock full of RF noise from the injectors.
The remedy was re-routing the wiring and adjusting the filter level- Never looked back since
( well only to be sure I wasn't being followed by Jules..)
A general tip for all you home brew mechs out there.
Keep an eye on minor iron filings, drill swarf and the like that gets attracted to the magnet on the crank angle sensor magnet. If you have done any type of metal work in the engine bay and used the air hose to clean off any metallic rubbish, chances are you have some rubbish on the sender now. Keep it clean to maintain accurate timing.
Finally, don't get too anal about the specific original sensor. An egg is an egg is an egg ! It's only an magnet and a coil. As long as you can make a rigid holder for it with the correct proximity to the 60-2 wheel, 99% of them will work.
Transaxle Alfas Haul More Arse
Jim K
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by Jim K »

Well, if anyone wanted a1.8T bad enough, I'm sure they would get one from Europe. They are always available in ebay and elsewhere. However, new pistons/liners are almost non-existent. Std pistons can take ~450hp but for peace of mind you can go forged at ~700€ per set. Liners you can find from NOS 1750/1800 sets as they are the same. They do split at ~2.7-3bar boost (~43psi) but if you're that perverted, move to another planet -and take MD with ya for ballast,HAHAHAH! :twisted:
Yeah, a crank sensor is a crank sensor, don't know why Bosch has so many part numbers for (ostensibly) the same thing, but make sure the replacement you buy has the same lead length and not 10" shorter!!!!! :evil: Yeah, yeah...go ahead, let it rip! :wall:

Jim K.
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