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<  Performance  ~  Piggy Back Unichip question

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:44 am
SilverSilverJoined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:12 pmPosts: 14
Hi All

Ive had a good read and i did see that a few people used a Unchip to aid in the remapping etc.

I have a couiple of question if any one could help .

1. Unichip is there just 1 model and it fits all 1 for petrol and 1 for diesel

2. Is there more then 1 maker as i asked unichip uk and they said its not DIY and cost over £1000 to obtain and fit

3.Is there wiring diagrams about if i do get 1

Any advise will be great

Thanks in advance

Ecu is from a 2.5 156 2003 0261 207 597 running a 3.0 turbo


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:00 pm
GoldGoldJoined: Sat May 17, 2014 10:44 amPosts: 83
Welcome over


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:59 pm
SilverSilverJoined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:12 pmPosts: 14
maxiboy wrote:
Welcome over



Thx buddy , seems to be more tuning info over here :P


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:12 pm
User avatarVerdeVerdeJoined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:57 pmPosts: 590Location: Sydney
I haven't heard of a "unichip" style interceptor module for L Jet...

To a certain extent, you can trick it to do some of what you want- Greg Gordon has documented it well.
What are you planning and what is the end goal?



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:03 am
SilverSilverJoined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:12 pmPosts: 14
SydneyJules wrote:
I haven't heard of a "unichip" style interceptor module for L Jet...

To a certain extent, you can trick it to do some of what you want- Greg Gordon has documented it well.
What are you planning and what is the end goal?



Thx for thr reply.

Its a DASTEK unichip that read about on this forum. But what im trying to achieve is easier remapping.

I will changing the engine about and the only place i can get it remapped is 200 miles away and nearly £1000 ago . and i was reading that this DASTEK unichip can be remapped changing the timing and fuelling via my local tuners.

I could go down the complete stand alone ecu but it would be more simple to have a piggy back leaving the original ecu on aswel.

Tjhx again


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:42 am
User avatarVerdeVerdeJoined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:26 amPosts: 4056Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Unichip..
I haven't heard about those in about 10 years! :shock:
Surely there are more modern systems now?



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:36 am
SilverSilverJoined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:12 pmPosts: 14
Mats wrote:
Unichip..
I haven't heard about those in about 10 years! :shock:
Surely there are more modern systems now?



There is some but nothing seems to include Alfa's :cry:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:56 pm
VerdeVerdeJoined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:15 pmPosts: 521Location: South Australia
mirlock wrote:
Hi All

Ive had a good read and i did see that a few people used a Unchip to aid in the remapping etc.

I have a couiple of question if any one could help .

1. Unichip is there just 1 model and it fits all 1 for petrol and 1 for diesel

2. Is there more then 1 maker as i asked unichip uk and they said its not DIY and cost over £1000 to obtain and fit

3.Is there wiring diagrams about if i do get 1

Any advise will be great

Thanks in advance

Ecu is from a 2.5 156 2003 0261 207 597 running a 3.0 turbo


Without knowing ECU numbers off the top of my head, is that a Motronic or L-Jettronic number?

And just so you know, and despite any marketing rhetoric, a sensor signal modifier like the Unichip doesn't 'Re-map' anything. Sensor signal modifier send different signals than what is actually happening to the ECU in the hope that you/the tuner can get the ECU to do what you/the tuner wants.
For minor tuning, that approach can work OK.
But for adding turbos or superchargers???
Again, marketing rhetoric will say "It's more amazing than an amazing thing with amazing-ness!". But the reality is typically VERY DIFFERENT!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:51 pm
SilverSilverJoined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:12 pmPosts: 14
Thx for the info Duk.

Its a Bosch 0261 207 597 Me3.1

I guess by what you say i will have to go the full stand alone ecu , At least i had hope for a couple of days :lol: Unless i keep what i have get it remapped and then dont change anything.
i have some time to decide still as ive got other things to do first so i shall see what information i find out or get advised.

Thanks again for reply Duk


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:28 pm
GoldGoldJoined: Sat May 17, 2014 10:44 amPosts: 83
I would speak to Ned at autolusso..

was very helpful when my ecu broke.. now i,m not 100% sure but the alfa 3.2 gta ecu which i think are 7.31 maybe are extremely tune-able standard

but cost wise even though they are plug and play are nearly as much as an emerald system.

but if you could get one secondhand then I think Ned can map them and the software is available for the standard Bosch unit..

otherwise i,m guessing your better off going standalone and something that they allow you access too..


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:01 am
SilverSilverJoined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:12 pmPosts: 14
maxiboy wrote:
I would speak to Ned at autolusso..

was very helpful when my ecu broke.. now i,m not 100% sure but the alfa 3.2 gta ecu which i think are 7.31 maybe are extremely tune-able standard

but cost wise even though they are plug and play are nearly as much as an emerald system.

but if you could get one secondhand then I think Ned can map them and the software is available for the standard Bosch unit..

otherwise i,m guessing your better off going standalone and something that they allow you access too..



Hi Maxi

Your right the gta is a good ecu mine is very much like it. I did speak to ned before and he very helpful , But its much the same things he can remap but he wanted £1000 + vat

I have all the kit to remap the ecu but not to live remap it via rolling road and the ones who can live remap keep how they do it a secret .

So again i think your right a stand alone ecu, but ive still not found out if the ecu i want to replace controls the traction control which i think maybe a problem.

I shall have another good read and see whats out there, i would like a ecu that is not too complicated so i can fit it all myself

i will report back with my findings :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:55 pm
SilverSilverJoined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:12 pmPosts: 14
Ive found this and done some reading and it seems that it does work.

Wiring seems straight forward although no alfa diagram is listed but i would just need o get hold of a diagram for my ecu.

Email sent to the makers asking a few question lets see what they return.

anyone else tried this . for the price its worth a go

http://www.ecumaster.co.uk/products/digital-ecu-tuner-3

They make a stand alone aswell for a good price


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:28 pm
VerdeVerdeJoined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:15 pmPosts: 521Location: South Australia
Something that needs to be understood about sensor bending interceptor tuners that is particularly apparent when adding forced induction, or more specifically, bigger injectors that are needed to supply the extra fuel that forced induction requires, is that the manipulation of the load sensor's signal has to modified to convince the factory ECU to shorten the injector oopen times when the extra fuel isn't actually needed.

Think of it like this. If you double the injector size/flow rate, then all of those areas where the engine doesn't need any extra fuel (idling, cruising and moderate acceleration where the engine doesn't come on boost) and is basically making the kind of power the engine would make in standard form, then the injector open times basically need to be halved.
So lets say that the standard engine idles with an injector open time of 2 milli-seconds(ms).
If you double the flow rate of the injectors, the sensor bender has to convince the factory ECU that it only needs to open the injectors for 1 ms...............
The thing is, based on what little I've seen of factory engine management systems (late '80s, early '90s Nissan ECU's that I believe are based on Bosch ECUs), how they work and their mapping/operating approach (it does tend to be different to the way after market ECU's work), there may not be any condition/map point that exists in the ECU's fuel map that warrants a 1ms injector open time.
Now the ECU MAY(!!!) be able to cope with this via its learning ability and apply a correction factor to its open time. But this self learning function is to apply a global correction to the injector open times to help cover variations in the fuel delivery system itself.
The ECU doesn't know that you've put in larger injectors.
Assuming that no fault conditions are triggered, the ECU doesn't know that there is a little liar whispering in its ear (the interceptor telling different stories than what is actually happening).
So what ever ECU correction that occurs via the self learning, will be applied everywhere! If the ECU decides that something is wrong enough that it needs to apply (say) a 20% reduction in injector open time, then that 20% correction value will be applied every single time the injectors are opened.

My suggestions for your situation are these:
If you want to persiste with running your engine via the factory ECU, and there is good reason to do that, then either:

1 - Have the ECU remapped to run the engine with the turbo and suitable injectors in the way a car manufacturer would GENUINELY do it.

2 - Have generic ECU remap that makes sure that there is a short enough injector open time in the fuel map that will allow the interceptor to manipulate the situation and get the ECU to properly provide accurate injector open times at low loads. As well as provide all of the other fuel and igntion timing fine tuning.

3 - Use a different type of interceptor tuner that actually modifies the injector signal rather than fudges the main load sensor signal!
I like these and have used 1 in the past (not an Alfa).
A point that is always left out about sensor bender interceptors, is that by reducing the main load sensor's signal to shorten the injector open times (because of you bigger injectors), this tells the ECU that the engine is under less load than it really is. This will cause the ECU to look at a different part of the fuel map, but it will also look at a different part of the ignition map. And typically it will be looking at a part of the ignition map that will provide MORE ignition advance!
Yes you will be able to correct that in the ignition correction map, but you will be changing 2 things at once when tuning.
If you use an interceptor tuner that modifies the actual injector signal, this problem and the potential problem of trying to get the ECU to access a map point/condition that doesn't actually exist in its programming, are removed.
The Trust E-Manage Ultimate and the AEM FIC-6 and FIC-8 are such devices.
The Trust unit is more capable in some respects, but the AEM units are considerably cheaper. I've used the Trust EMU in the past and found it to be very good at what it can do.

4 - Use a decent programmable computer.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:05 pm
SilverSilverJoined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:12 pmPosts: 14
Thank you very much Duk for taking the time for a great reply. My eyes are bleeding from doing so much reading :shock:

Your advice is solid and i think maybe its best to either go stand alone ecu or an ecu to control the timing and fuelling , As i have read that the standard ecu will more then likely realise its being tricked and rectify the bending .

If i list what i want and what ive done maybe you can have a more clear idea on what i need without taking too much of your time up, Then i can go and have a good read up on that.

1st im on a small budget so i need a way to be able to remap with out it costing me £1000 each time remapping the stock ecu.

The stock ecu is cf3 bosch running the engine only , It has been remapped but before upgrades.(Angel Remap)

I have a nitrous system which has its own ecu that either monitors or alters the fuelling but not fitted yet (only will use nitrous for fun track day straight line fun)

Engine is 3.0 v6 24v running from the hybrid Bosch 156 2.5 Ecu

Upgrades

Larger plenum
F430 Throttle Body
Gas flowed and compression lowered to about 9:1 from 10:1
Fast Road cams 260 duration 9.95 lift
Td05 G20 Turbo running 8psi (internal waste gate with forge actuator )
Manifolds have been de-cat leaving 1 back cat (4 o2 sensors)
stainless performance exhaust
Upgraded injectors from 220cc @ 4Bar to 320cc @3.9 Bar 420cc @ 5 Bar
Upgraded fuel pump with pressure regulator (changes from 3.9 bar to 5 bar as turbo spools)


With the lowish boost pressure im not sure how much re-mapping i will need as its new territory for me.

Should i leave it on the remapped stock ecu and get it on the rolling road and see what it does, . then decide or are the upgrades so much that i will most likely need a new ecu and get one before the rolling road . (rolling road tuners are just down the road from me but he can not remap alfa stock ecu's)

sorry if i repeat myself screen is blurry like the brain from reading so long

Thank you for your help / advice ,


p.s i do have the ecu .bin file if that can give any extra information


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:17 pm
SilverSilverJoined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:12 pmPosts: 14
After many many hours of reading and me liking to build things.

Im going for a megasquirt stand alone ecu. Seems many people have used them on Alfa's and i love the idea of building it all myself. Will be something to do on cold rainy days and nights.

So unless someone comes up with a NOOO STOPP its problem solved.

I will write back with how its going.

Thank you guys for your advice on my problem . nice 1


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