Problem with 164 24v running on 3 cylinders

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johangtv624v
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Problem with 164 24v running on 3 cylinders

Post by johangtv624v » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:04 am

Hello All,

My Name is Johan (from the netherlands), and i have a GTV6, cause my original engine broke down (broken valve..)
i have taken the step to get a 164 24v engine. after a lot of evenings of hobbying, i have got the engine ready, and at this very moment its sitting in my gtv6.

it even runs, however i noticed only 1 exhaust was getting warm, and in higher rev's the engine had troubles (stationary it sounded pretty good... )

so after some touching and hearing i came to the conclusion that left row (in the 164 the front row) was not doing anything exhaus headers stays cold.

i also listend to the injectors, and it appears that the injectors at that side aren't working eather.

has anyone ideas on something that can cause a complete row not to inject/run ?
KevinR
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Re: Problem with 164 24v running on 3 cylinders

Post by KevinR » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:52 am

On the 164 wiring loom it goes into a pair of igniters modules .. The one could be faulty . I had that on my 164 which meant it only fired on one bank .
Worth a look into.
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Re: Problem with 164 24v running on 3 cylinders

Post by johangtv624v » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:05 am

KevinR wrote:On the 164 wiring loom it goes into a pair of igniters modules .. The one could be faulty . I had that on my 164 which meant it only fired on one bank .
Worth a look into.

I have found out that 3 injectors weren't working ... strange thing, all 3 at the same side not working ...

but i got them cleaned out and replaced one, and that problem was gone.... however i still have a other problem maybe some of you have some ideas?

So the engine starts directly everytime i start it cold and hot,
on cold start it will run for about 15 seconds, and than it will swing between low and high revs, untill the engine dies.

i have noticed when i disconnect the TPS or disconnect the AFM the engine will run but with far too much revs...
i have measured the voltage from the tps and this goes nice from .50 volts to a 4.3 volt on full open

i have diassembled the inlet runners, cleaned them and bolt them on with some silicone gasket replacer,
i have tested the car without any extra vacuum users, so only with the ICS connected to the inlet chamber.

but every thing stays the same... engine is swinging on idle till engine dies.
engine runs nice in higer revs, i do not notice antything off ... but on idle its almost if its not running on all cylinders... ecu gives me no fault codes

i am now at the point that i do not know the next thing to check ...does anyone here have ideas?
next weekend i will check also check the compression and will put in some new spark plugs .. but i don't have high hopes for that
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Re: Problem with 164 24v running on 3 cylinders

Post by KevinR » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:13 pm

What happens if you disconnect idle actuator to test . Maybe check its not sticky with oil. check for any other airleaks around the idle actuator and conscertina rubber intake .
Any pis of the engine bay ?
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Re: Problem with 164 24v running on 3 cylinders

Post by johangtv624v » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:29 am

I have done a couple of things past week;

try to clean the idle control, with brake cleaner and wd40,
result: engine runs at same rev when idling

however the engine when idling still shake/hick's a bit

then changed the spark plugs and checked on compression
result: no improvement, compression was 14 bar on each cylinder

then taken the part between head and inlet runners from the engine, cleaned them and re installed it with some gasket replacer
result: no improvement.

so engine runs at this moment at a good idle rev, but does not run very nice for a 6 cylinder

i think this could be in one of the ignition coils or something like that...
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75evo
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Re: Problem with 164 24v running on 3 cylinders

Post by 75evo » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:59 am

Does the exhaust smell rich of unburnt fuel? That means one coil isn't firing

Best thing to do now is to unplug each coil connector one at a time. The one that has no effect is the bad one.
Last edited by 75evo on Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
KevinR
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Re: Problem with 164 24v running on 3 cylinders

Post by KevinR » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:15 pm

Next step , fit an inline fuel pressure guage . I had a problem on my 156 and it was fluctuating fuel pressure .
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Re: Problem with 164 24v running on 3 cylinders

Post by johangtv624v » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:43 am

@kevin

did you also had only problems on idling with your 156?



@75evo

no fuel smell at the exhaust, cause the plugs from the ignition coils where a bit tricky to remove(lot of work @one side etc etc)

i have unplugged the injectors one at the time, my idea was that if 1 cylinder had a bad spark, you would notice it in running with disabling the injector... (drop in rev's)

however on all cylinders the engine has the same fall back.

at this point,

- i am sure i have no vacuum leak
- have a good injection (are cleaned) so fuel is there
-good spark
-good compression 14 bar

all ingredients are there :) ... and i have enough power...

does anyone knows what the problems are when the timing is slightly off? (i have good compression ... that would argue timing is good ... )

i have bought this engine and this problem was probably there when i bought it, cause the idle adjust screw cover(i know its not realy the idle screw ... ) was missing and someone has clearly done some adjustments on the throttle valve,,,,
i have changed the timing belt, but i have not used the proper tools (not used the camblock)
maybe the previous owner has done the timing slightly wrong what cause this behavior
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Re: Problem with 164 24v running on 3 cylinders

Post by 75evo » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:58 am

Did you check if you mixed up the TPS and Knock sensor connectors? I did that once in my 164 24V and it didn't idle properly.

Also, a slightly mistimed cam will cause a rough idle. You don't need factory tools but you need dial indicators and specs from the factory. That's why people use the factory cam locks as it saves you a LOT of headache.
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Giuliettaevo2
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Re: Problem with 164 24v running on 3 cylinders

Post by Giuliettaevo2 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:07 pm

I have a set of camper blocks you can borrow if you like.
Drive it like you stole it...
KevinR
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Re: Problem with 164 24v running on 3 cylinders

Post by KevinR » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:31 pm

You may have jumped one tooth on left bank . Check your timing marks on back of cams .
You don't need cam block tools but they are helpful . Just use a piece of paper under a cam cap to hold it in position .( then obviously remove it after )
Im far from a mechanic but managed to set my timing no problem perfectly with out cam tools how ever warning if you do use them buy a longer set of spare cam bolts as the caps sit further away ( the ones I had) so only a few threads engage and you can strip the heads ( seen it on mates car )
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