MerrilGordon
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Voltage Regulator

Post by MerrilGordon »

From past posts I've read that the adjustable voltage regulator sold through IAP and other sources has premature wear problems.

Another old post that maybe the ticket had an excellent suggestion and I'll post it here:

From Tom:
"I'll tell you a little secret. You can improve the electrical behavior of your alternator by a reasonable amount by buying a voltage regulator that does not quite belong in our car... A mechanic once took me aside a few years ago, put a little box in my hands and said: "secret of the trade". It was a voltage regulator. A Ford/Opel regulator. Allright, you can recover from the shock now. To be exact the regulator he gave me is a 14,5 V regulator. It is of the brand Huco, made in germany. There's a sticker on the box which has the following numbers:
This looks like the huco number:
13 0512
This looks like a more general number:
068 903 803D
Volt.Reg.Ford/Opel/VAG-91
Now, go out and get one! I had about 15% increase in current when charging. It improves performance at idle as well."


Well I went to see if I could get one and came up with the some uncertainty about the part number. It seems that 068 903 803 as well as ...803A and ...803B exist in the parts book, but not ...803D. Anyone know if there is any real difference ? One of the p/n's even had 82 & 83 GTV6's listed for an application.

I thought I'd post this little issue to see if anyone had the true skinny on this voltage regulator. I'd love to go with the best unit I could find and get something like 14.5v for when it's dark outside, the wipers are on, the heater fan is on . . .

Thanks,
Merril
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MD
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Post by MD »

Hi Merril,

Two things in my opinion. 14.25V is a fairly typical charge voltage for Euro cars. Charging voltages for batteries are a compromise for battery life and performance. Increasing the charge voltage has short term benefits but not over the long term.

The other issue is that of current supply. I recently converted my alternator to an 85 amp unit and THIS is what has made a huge difference along the lines of what you are expecting. Voltages are important but only if the energy behind the voltage (current) is available and most original Alfa alternators of the GTV6 vintage make good ballast if you like sailing.

With a new alterantor, you will be provided with a new built in regulator so you really don't need to source one on its own. Off course in Italian wiring looms, there are always interesting reasons why there are voltage drops here and there and form the usual source of endearment? to our beloved machines. The Japs can take a hike. All that reliability-how boring? :D


MD
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Post by Jim K »

Hi guys,
Speaking of regulators, you have to consider a few things like total current requirements and battery size for example. If you are using 100/130w bulbs and you spend some time idling in the city traffic, you will appreciate higher voltage AND current. Its very nice to have 14,4v combined with a modern 120A alternator (which unfortunately doesn't fit our cars mounts) and also a large battery. A company called TRANSPO (in the US, they have a web site) makes regulators in various voltages, so take your pick! They are a direct replacement of the stock part and cost very little,too.
I like voltages around 14,4+, because it really makes a difference in the light output of high-wattage bulbs. The downside is a decrease of bulb life, but this is of secondary importance.
Regards,
Jim K.
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Post by MD »

Jim, first an foremost I really respect your knowledge on things Alfa so what I am about to say is not meant to contradict you so PLEASE bear that in mind.

Prior to fitting a new 85 amp alterantor, an auto electrician and I carried out a total current demand of my GTV6. With engine running, lights on, air conditioner on, thermo fans, heater demister on, wipers on (anotherwords with all services on ) the current demand came to 82 amps. Now, it is unlikely that you would have all these services on at once or if you did, it would not be for an extended time. So we settled on a Bosch 85amp alterantor which is a standard unit and can be fitted to the engine.

With respect to the headlight wattages, I would say that large wattage bulbs are only appropriate for lagre volume headlight designs that will dissipate the heat. My bitter experience with brand new headlights of the five and three quarter inch diameter GTV6 type when I fitted with 100W bulbs was that the top of the inside reflector got promtly burned and stuffed my new lights. So needless to say I now use the standard 55/60W bulbs in my replaced new headlights!

Up to a point, I agree on use of high wattage bulbs for larger sized lights or units especially made for the purpose such as aftermarket ancillary spot lights etc. Althought it should be borne in mind that intensity of light output is not a linear relationship to wattage. The relationship is logarithmic. Anotherwords,there is a lot more build up of heat than there is output of actual light per increase in wattage. Incidentally, it is in this application that you may want to upgrade to 125 amp alternator (or higher for rally applications)

Totally agree on the use of a large capacity battery for reserve grunt when you need it. After all they don't correctly refer to batteries as the "accummulator" for nothing eh?

Hope you're not gonna throw rocks on my roof Jim!
:D

MD
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Post by 4SFED4 »

MD,

I am running 100W high beams from Cibie and they DO make a huge difference and I am only running a 55W alternator. Never had a problem with burning anything inside the light... but then again they were designed for high power bulbs. By the by... my Suburban has a 140W alternator!

-Brian
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Post by Jim K »

Hi again,
MD, I got carried away there for a while, as I was thinking of my 75, which has never encountered high-power bulb life problems. Now, in my gtv,it was a different story. I used 80/100w bulbs in new Carello lights and had them so wired, that I could have all 4 on at 'high beam' for better visibility (H1 bulbs) when travelling on the highway. It was a matter of life, that every 20-22 hours of use the bulbs failed within 2 hours from each other! Speak of consistency! Of course I had 2,5mm sq. wiring, 40A relays, tight crimps, direct battery supply etc. This recurring failure was due to the small gtv light size as you mention. However, in all the years, it did not affect the reflectors at all, as I was concerned it might and looked for deterioration signs. When properly aligned, those lights were a joy to driving at night! If you now think of idling in the rain, wipers, heater and defroster on, a very realistic picture (ok, no megawatt thump-thump sub!!)-as you said, we must consider worst case conditions- you may well be looking at 50A of consumption and at a speed where the alternator does not easily put out a lot of current. Long time ago, cars didn't dream of having today's power sapping accessories, hence the industry move to 100A+ alternators and large batteries-not good for track days, too heavy!! I agree that a 55A job is adequate, but just barely and a large battery has surely a longer life. I have also tried to modify the 70A Bosch alternator for more current,but was told that 85 is the max for the given housing-I was aiming for more like 120 myself!!
In contrast, I will mention in passing, that F3 cars have a crank mounted alrernator, putting out just enough current for the fuel pump and ignition, a total of 10-12A. Alfa Romeo, years ago in the eighties, tried to save some weight (1kg?) and the associated power drain of this little gadget and attempted to run a race on the racing battery alone! Ironically the car was first, but ran out of juice in the last lap!Hahah! (They also tried other brilliant ideas, like removing the no. 2 and 4 main bearings, but what little power was gained was offset by pronounced vibration.)
Regards,
Jim K.
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Post by MerrilGordon »

14.25v for some of the European cars MD? That’s good to know. I’d say that 068-903-803 and its letter iterations may be of the right voltage as I remember seeing VW VR6 as one of the applications. And Jim, I’ll have a look at the TRANSPO web site and see what they’ve got. I still like the idea of running a higher voltage. I just think my car could use it. I have installed the more powerful alternator from my Milano donor car and maybe I actually have the capacity now. Was that a 75A unit or higher?

MD’s current measurement of 82 amps is interesting. Shows the old 65A alternator was never really up for the job. With modern cars using AC to dehumidify the air even in cool weather conditions, I can see using AC as well if it’s damp outside.

Regarding headlights, it seems to me that I seldom run hi-beams due to frequent oncoming traffic, but have thought about having all four lights with low-beam capability to add more light for me without blinding the other guy. I think that would be especially nice during dark rainy nights. Some extra wattage there would be nice too.

Merril
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Post by Jim K »

Hi again gang,
The 3liter alternator is 70A. Now, on the subject of bulb wattage, life expectancy etc. here's some data you may find interesting: At 110% of rated voltage, the current will increase by 5%, light output increases by 40% and life will be reduced to nearly 35% of that at design voltage! At 80% of rated voltage, current decreases by 10%, light output drops by more than 50%, but life is increased to...18 times normal!! This info is from an electronic design data book (pub.by Van Nostrand Reinhold). I don't mind paying more for bulbs, as relaxed driving at night is of paramount importance (especially if you are moving at illegal speeds!).
TGIF !
Jim K.
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Post by Mats »

I actually have made my own circuit so that the power to the lamps are routed via a resisor when driving during the day (must have the lights all the time) to save the lamps and reflectors. When I rotate the stalk to "1" the resistor is bypassed and the bulbs get full power.
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Post by Jim K »

Hi Mats!
Coming to think of it, some clowns with government suits here are getting ready to pass the same legislation about driving with lights on all the time. When (if) that happens, I'll use a 'chopper' (special electronic circuit) to reduce the available voltage for the bulbs. Its a good way to regulate resistive loads.
Have a good weekend!
Jim K.
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Post by Guy »

Just something I've noticed myself with regards to higher wattage bulbs. My reflectors are a bit corroded and I fitted 100w bulbs to get a bit better light, new headlights for gtvs are almost impossible to find here.
Anyway the bulbs lasted much longer in the high beams than the low beams, in fact i switched back to 60w for the low beams. I reckon this was due to the lows having the shield inside the light and causing a bigger build up of heat. The stainless base of the bulbs had actually turned blue from the heat on some of the blown bulbs.

Has anyone tried fitting other headlights such as the hella 90mm modules to their car?, its just something I was thinking a bout a while ago.
http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/hella-90mm/

Cheers
Guy
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Post by Zamani »

Jim,

Is it some sort of PWM signal to the lights? That could be interesting...
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Post by Murray »

Guys I found the ultimate solution for my GTV6 headlights.I contacted Daniel Stern Lighting and Daniel sold me 4 Cibie lamps in which I have 100/90 & 100W Narva bulbs.Needless to say I installed relays and heavy-duty wiring.The result is remarkable.They are better than the Xenons in my Audi.I have no problems with overheating or reflector discoloration.I guess the Cibies are designed to handle it.I have also noted that even with the tremendous light output of the low beams I never get flashed by oncoming drivers so the lenses are very well designed.
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Post by MD »

Guy,

Check with Murray for the Cibie details. He seems to have solved the problem. Carellos in my opinion have the most efficient lens configuration but piss poor reflector life.
Cibie is next on my list for lens efficiency but better reflector life. Hella have a satisfactory lens pattern but the toughest reflector life. I have used them all over time.

If you don't do any good with Murray's set up for whatever reason, drop me a line and I will put up a post of how I did my Carello to Hella conversion.

Like everyone else is saying, it is important to get adequate sized wiring, relays, and fuses to wire up the headlights preferably direct from the alternator. Particularly if your battery is in the boot (trunk for USA).

Like Matts I have previously wired up quad low beam configuration only to undo it 2 months later because I got sick and tired of dickheads who couldn't tell the difference between a high beam and a low beam. They kept flashing me to drop my lights but when I turned up the tarburner high beams they thought I put on my auxilliary lights and just inflamed the situation.

One time I got flahsed by a standing vehicle on the other side of some traffic lights so as usual I tunrned on my high beams just to show them what the difference was and turned the area into daylight. AT about this time I wound up developing a small skid mark in my underwear because I had illuminated a police car previously in the dark. Yoiks !! :D

You get the idea. Good plan but just couldn't make it work.

MD
Last edited by MD on Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Jim K »

Hi Z,
PWM is right. You can even have an underdash knob to vary light output- nice, right?! Don't worry about emi/rfi, no problems with the ECU. I've been using my own CDI (210mJ spark) for 20 years now and everything's ok!
Regards,
Jim K.
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