ALFAGTV6.COM

[sh0rtlife]

ok well ive been forced to stop driving the alfa...the "stock" 83 stuff is crap..total CRAP

has ANYONE swaped out the 83 stuff for the 87 stuff..i have a COMPLETE running milano to rob what i dont already have in a box that came with the 87 engine that was put in the gtv befor i got it INCLUDEING the engine harness and computer


would be great to have a 87 wiring diagram and a 83 diagram to compare side by side to help me thru this...one way or another im swaping out the wirreing and associated electronics and pickups........any assistance would be a GREAT HELP

[Murray]

sh0rtlife Sounds like you're pretty frustrated.Don't let it get to you,you're the boss !
Now before you start ripping stuff out, try and describe what exactly is wrong and I'm sure we can guide you through the process of making your car act properly.
The 87 L-Jet system is basically the same as the 83 so unless the wiring in your 83 is seriously damaged it's probably best to sort it out and maybe use parts from the 87 to resolve some of the problems.

[sh0rtlife]

my problems stem from the crapy designed bosch spark module on the fender and tinfect the brain as well...its eatin atleast 5 of the spark boxes and the brian is the problem now as well.....ive got 3 spare brains and 5 spare spark mudles for the 87 style stuff....not to mention the 87 style stuff is atleast availible NEW


she's back to her old tricks of poping the rev limiter in at early RPM's depending on engine temp will change what the rev limiter descides to hit me as well as my driveing style...if im agressive when its cold ill never have an early limit..if i drive like a sane person its 3200..mid temp not warm but not cold i get a 4-5k limit...this one i dont mind as much...once war i get a limit at about 2500thru 4500 meaning you better drive like your on a track to avoid it
COLD i dont get a right turn stumbling death(full or empty tank changes nothing) mid temp its so so about 50/50..once warmed any right hander will cause the car to stumble buck and kick.....when i say right hander i mean anything above 15mph

at this point ive exhausted all of my spare 83 electronics and gotten several off ebay..im sick of throwing money at a bad design...right now "if" i could get a "new" spark module 10-1 it would run flawless atleast for a while

honestly if it wasnt for the fact that the car gets killer mileage and the wife enjoying rideing in the car and it being as much fun as it is when its right i probably would have cut the car in half last month when i parked it



on a side note the milano is feeding a micro car project..should said project turn out as good as i hope the gtv6 will go byebye...all the more reason to make it right and 100% reliable

[Mats]

...ive got 3 spare brains...

Dang, and I thought 1 was enough!

[mjr]

the gtv6 ignition system is plenty reliable in my experience, but sounds like possible terminal/crimp corrosion to me, earthing issues. Maybe inspect your fuse box and wiring termination.

[sh0rtlife]

ive been thru all of the connections 5 or 6 times cleaning sanding wire brushing and checking everythig and cant seem to find any problems

as reliable as it "should" be its never realy been...and i cant seem to get parts for the 83 style but the parts for the 87 style seem to be ALOT more availible

i take it no one has actualy ever done the wireing swap?.....i would think a 3.0l swap would be ruffly the same wireing swap out

[mjr]

shortlife,

so you have eliminated bad earths, crimps and wiring. But I think re-wiring the car is premature. The 87 bits are no different to the 83 in principle, its the same system, bar one or two small differences. maybe its time to go back to basics first, as we can all get tunnel vision with these things, when the problem drags on.

The fact that you have been through so many spark modules, proves that its electrical and not fuel, and cant be the spark modules themselves, the spark modules are crapping out due to working outside of their normal envelope. ie outside influence, eg resistance, or interference, which may be causing the switching to burn out within the modules.. just a guess.

Have you opened a faulty one up yet, and proved it is faulty off of or in another car??? if so, are they crapping out after a short while on your car?? how long? How do you know you have ECU's crapping out now too??


weird behaviour going around corners, etc is odd. that Suggests its a part subjected to directional stresses. have you looked at timing sensor? if that is loose or corroded, and the sensor gap is changing, it would certainly affect the ECU's behaviour, and have a knock on effect on the ignition.


My first port of call would be to swap the coil over, then change the cap, HT leads, plugs, and examine carefully the low tension wiring to the coil, distributor and spark module for any damage, make sure you dont have any high resistance sources in the low tension wiring. ie corrosion, damage etc. Do a resistance test from end to end, a severe kink or crush damage in an LT cable could be enough to cause high enough resistance to or from the coil supply and ground side. A faulty or incorrectly supplied coil could trash the spark module over time.


What story are your plugs telling you, do they look normal?


Start with electrical ignition, and eliminate all potential sources. Im sure that will fix it. then move on to fuel/Air if not.

[sh0rtlife]

see i wish i could test some of this stuff on another car to prove faults but i only have access to 87 stuff wich maks troubleshooting that much harder

the spark moduals seem to last an "odd" amount of time befor they act up...i had this one last about 6-7 months befor it died...at wich time i figured the problem was solved

course i never sourced out a "new" one for the fact i couldnt locate one..yet the 87 style i can get NEW for 40$ localy as often as i want lol

the only reason i swaped out the ECU was someone here had said that is was a likely culprit...i honestly cant say

i noticed you said "have you looked at timing sensor"..wheres it at on an 83...ive never seen one i didnt think it had one

something i should have probably mentioned is i can be litteraly sitting at one point on the gas and holding it steady and have the RPMS going up and down about 1000-1500 rpm when im neer the problem areas in the RPM band

ive got a new in box msd blaster SS coil can i use it or do i need a specific coil....most of the time on cars a coil is a coil is a coil lol

as for the wireing in the car i dont think anyone ever touched it anywhere befor i got the car its FLAWLESS except a small section under the center console where the mirror switch nuked it..and i think the car just rolled 80k miles..zero rust anywhere too...ill pull the plugs tomaro and see what they look like and start some inspecting

[mjr]

ok,


so you have replaced the AFM, and coil (a standard 12v oil filled is fine) and the ECU. and you are sure that all the LT wiring is in good condition, earthing, and the fusebox and wiring and ecu plug are all good because you have checked them all.(greg gordons earthing article is worth going through in case you missed anything)

(since replacing the ecu made no difference, I WOULD PUT THE ORIGINAL ONE BACK IN)

I think the 87 spark module will work ok. I cant see that it would be any different to the 83 in operation. the fact that the spark modules are burning out, still says to me that LT or HT problems else where in the circuit are the problem. my spark module is oriningal and 70,000 miles without a hickup. I run standard ignition, with original plug and lead specs. never a hickup once. The stock system is very reliable.

so next

Have the timing checked and set up first, then replace the Dist cap, rotor arm and ALL of the HT leads. The 87 leads will be just fine.

My euro spec 83 has a flywheel sensor bolted to the flywheel casing, I assume its an RPM sensor? Is this not standard then? perhaps someone else can confirm. if yours doesnt have it, the its one less thing to check.

can you replicate rough running parked up?

[sh0rtlife]

i was under the impression that the US spec cars ran the 1980 wireing till the end of 83 and in 84 it got the "new" solid state stuff....my 83 has the big nasty silver bosch Ignition box not the nice tiny little solid state module next to the coil....best i know the 83 doesnt have a crank trigger either but i think the 87 does

ill swap out the coil today and see if theres a change but i dont expect one.
i know the AFM is good but ill swap it out just for a verification(since the 87 uses the same one)
i read the grounding and tuneup articals the day i got the car and went over the entire system just to be safe
the 87 spark module has an entirely diferent plug on it from the 83 so no testing availible..unless someone knows how i can wire it in lol
ill re-check the timeing ...cap and rotor were new about 6k miles ago but ill check em over or swap em out off the 87 along with the wires cause the 87 has a sweet set of new wires on it too

some times i can re-create the ruff running rpm issues while parked but only at specific temps...its weird how so much of the problems are temp based..or should i say change with the temps

what i do know between the 83 vs 87 is that the ecu, ignition control module, tps vs a switch, and a few other things are diferent ..i was under the impression that the 87 stuff was MUCH more reliable especialy since the parts are availible at most parts houses where the 80-83 stuff is well not availible

[mjr]

Shortlife.

yes thats a good start . but just take your time and change one thing at a time, then test. start with the coil only as you said. if that makes no difference, then change the HT leads (including the rotor HT lead), then the cap and rotor, lastly the plugs. each time testing. leave the AFM and TPS out of it for now, as they are fuel/air really. Just stick to a logical progression through spark stuff for now. That way you can pin point which item may be causing your spark modules to wear out so quickly.

can you post a few pictures of your ignition module fitted to the 83 and 87 car,So I know what we are dealing with? It sounds as if the 83 euro spec was updated way before the US spec machines. if you have no flywheel sensor, then that makes life simpler. I very much doubt the 87 ECU will run your car correctly, if at all.

I take it you dont have a good known working spark module then? temps wise, its common for ignition problems to track temp changes, due to resistance and current induction behaviour etc. These characteristics change with temperature.

we will get the old girl happy again....fear not

[MR2 Zig]

Shortlife,
I remember that there are 2 different rotors for the GTV6. I think one had a resistor in it, but I'm not sure...something to check on.

HTH,
Scott

[sh0rtlife]

well so far just changeing the plug wires has made a huge improvement..tho being rainy and wet and not haveing time to put her thru full paces i cant say for sure

heres what i do know about the us spec 83 vs 87 wireing....the 83 has a 2 wire dist and the 87 a 3 wire...the 83 uses a big aluminum cased bosch ignition module and the 87 uses this dainty little solid state unit mountd to the coil bracket(looks like that of a GM module)..the 83 uses a 2 wire switch for a tps and the 87 uses an actual true tps ...and then i know there is a change in the plenum for a slightly diferent throttle body and some minor changes to the vacum setup...both have a hole for a crank sensor but i think the 87 has one ..i know the 83 doesnt...the 83 has a simple finned plenum the 87 has a 6C molded into it up front

im sure the ecu is diferent but when i got the car it came with an 87 engine installed and the factory 83 pulled(was just a AFM issue tho)..along with the 87 engine came EVERYTHING ..all the sensors all of the wireing harness and the ecu and ignition module ...basicly everything to convert the 83 to 87 specs......


as for the rotor's is there any way to identify them?

and yeah i no longer have a known working ignition module..well i have a pile of the 87's lol

[Sporttunergtv6]

i had a problem like this when i was driving a few times. i thought it was the fuel pump or fuel pump wiring or combo relay. it turned out to be w faulty inertia switch. I found this out one day when i hat a pot hole realllllly hard and the car was immobilized. make sure the inertia switch button pops all the way up.
v

[sh0rtlife]

that inertia switch also known as "ASD" was removed long befor i got the car and replaced by a jumper wire