Anyway, Your instructions are very accurate, I suffer of slight paranoya, but I like to make sure and ask a million questions rather than screwing stuff up. You know what the y say, measure twice...Also, the wiring instructions for the unit are pretty much straight forward, but yours are even easier to follow, it should be easy enough. I will let you know how it goes.Yes, I have been 360 out before, my first time putting the dizzy in....still remember the feeling of watching the runner plenum fly up in the air and fire shooting out of the runners. Anyway, Your instructions are very accurate, I suffer of slight paranoya, but I like to make sure and ask a million questions rather than screwing stuff up. You know what the y say, measure twice...Also, the wiring instructions for the unit are pretty much straight forward, but yours are even easier to follow, it should be easy enough. I will let you know how it goes.
Anyway, Your instructions are very accurate, I suffer of slight paranoya, but I like to make sure and ask a million questions rather than screwing stuff up. You know what the y say, measure twice...Also, the wiring instructions for the unit are pretty much straight forward, but yours are even easier to follow, it should be easy enough. I will let you know how it goes.Xrad, got the car towed home via tow dolly (I decided I'd better finish the job in my garage). Anyway, I did not get much done today, but I should have something done and let you know how things went tomorrow. I am doing the job in a Milano instead than a GTV6, basically the same. Only difference are the color of the wires going to the coil. Two white and a yellow (-) and three black green (+). I am going to twist each side toghether pretty much the same way you did, and run wires to other side of engine bay. What gauge wire did you use? One of the white and black green wires are definately a heavier gauge than 16, but I believe that 16 should give enough continuity.
X-rad, I did not have to move the coil, I got lucky because I had enough lenght on the three prong connector going to the sensor. Once everything was secured I noticed that the LED on the Module was on. There is no light coming from the LED in the optical sensor though. However, I loosened the bracket that holds the sensor and as I adjusted the sensor the coil fired two times. As you would now say:NOW THE BAD PART. The engine does not start! I will post some picks of how things are looking.
Allalfa..I'm concerned!!
Is this a milano or a GTV6? I see a battery in the engine bay???? I have been assuming that you were working on a GTV6 and I can't be 100% sure that my mods will work for you.
Nice install...looks like mechanicals are in the right place. My vac advance points to the headlights while it looks like yours points to the side. Are you sure you have the rotor phased correctly to fire #1 cylinder at TDC??
I see a very faint mark at the 10-11 oclock position on the dizzy housing (TDC mark?) and it looks like shaft rotor groove is pointed at this mark...engine at TDC #1??
Red light should BLINK with each spark pulse. it does not stay on constantly when cranking and it should be off even with the ign switch in the run position as long as the engine is not running(at least that's how mine is)
Looks like the led touched the chop wheel...make sure there is room on both sides of wheel for the leds.
Did you shave the rotor like in my post?
Hook a timing light up to #1 wire and check for flash. If you have flash, check timing on the front pulley..
If you don't have a timing light, ground a spare plug and check for spark while someone else does the cranking. If you have spark, it may be a rotor phasing issue.............
If you don't have spark, it could still be a rotor phasing issue or wiring>
Red light should be on. Make sure you have green wires from alfa harness going to coil+ and white wires to Coil - . Carefully unhook the power transistor under the coil and leave unhooked. From your pics , looks like you have it right.
Looks like there is a bright green wire going to coil +?? is this from the ign switch or is it continuing on to the power transistor?
You will not see 'light' from the LEDs because it is not in the visible wavelength. I suppose for more accurate sensing......
pm me and i will give you my cell #
Is this a milano or a GTV6? I see a battery in the engine bay???? I have been assuming that you were working on a GTV6 and I can't be 100% sure that my mods will work for you.
Nice install...looks like mechanicals are in the right place. My vac advance points to the headlights while it looks like yours points to the side. Are you sure you have the rotor phased correctly to fire #1 cylinder at TDC??
I see a very faint mark at the 10-11 oclock position on the dizzy housing (TDC mark?) and it looks like shaft rotor groove is pointed at this mark...engine at TDC #1??
Red light should BLINK with each spark pulse. it does not stay on constantly when cranking and it should be off even with the ign switch in the run position as long as the engine is not running(at least that's how mine is)
Looks like the led touched the chop wheel...make sure there is room on both sides of wheel for the leds.
Did you shave the rotor like in my post?
Hook a timing light up to #1 wire and check for flash. If you have flash, check timing on the front pulley..
If you don't have a timing light, ground a spare plug and check for spark while someone else does the cranking. If you have spark, it may be a rotor phasing issue.............
If you don't have spark, it could still be a rotor phasing issue or wiring>
Red light should be on. Make sure you have green wires from alfa harness going to coil+ and white wires to Coil - . Carefully unhook the power transistor under the coil and leave unhooked. From your pics , looks like you have it right.
Looks like there is a bright green wire going to coil +?? is this from the ign switch or is it continuing on to the power transistor?
You will not see 'light' from the LEDs because it is not in the visible wavelength. I suppose for more accurate sensing......
pm me and i will give you my cell #
X-rad, I am going to be as precise as I can in describing how things have been done so far.
Car--1989 Milano
Ignition mod part
There are currently three original wires for both + and - terminals. These wires are going exactly where they used to go before I removed the double male connectors on each of the coil leads, they have been installed as follows:
- Three Black-Green (one black-bright green) all have been soldered together and soldered to a loop terminal connector. These are been bolted on the positive (+) lead on the coil along with the red Crane Cams Module wire.
- Two White and a Yellow all soldered together and soldered to a loop terminal connector. These are been bolted on the negative (-) lead on the coil along with the yellow Crane Cams Module wire.
- Black wire from Crane Cams Module has been grounded to fender
- Three prong wire connector to three prong plug going to Optical Sensor in Dizzy.
Timing Part
Lined up TDC mark #1, removed rotor cap and made sure button was facing #1 cylinder on block. Yes it did, also fell under number one plug terminal on Dizzy cap. This means that in that moment if the car were running, #1 cylinder would fire. Removed cap and made mark on dizzy housing edge lining up as explained in the Crane cams instructions.
replaced guts as explained in manual. Reinstalled dizzy by lowering back onto helical gear, gear did not move as I lowered it with the button lined up in the same way it was removed, notch on helical gear comfortably accepted the two protrusions on the bottom of dizzy shaft foot.
Last adjustments. I turned the engine on, I had the red LED on the module lighting up. As I started minimal adjustment of the optical sensor the light went off and on. I am guessing this is happening because the sensor is working as it should. Also, I witnessed two very loud sparks being emitted from the coil. I am not sure if the light has to be off or on when everything is lined up correctly. I did notice the slight tell-tale mark on the plastic wheel in the photo (thnks for pointing out), I may have to impose a few minor adjustment. Next, I am also almost positive that most likely, it is a matter of a slight adjustment that is causing the module not to work properly. I would love to chat on the phone, anytime this is good for you, I can call. I am on East Coast, so I will call when you instruct me it will be good for you. Only one issue...What does PM me mean? Sorry for any misunderstandings. Thanks for the time you are dedicating in helping also.[/i]
Car--1989 Milano
Ignition mod part
There are currently three original wires for both + and - terminals. These wires are going exactly where they used to go before I removed the double male connectors on each of the coil leads, they have been installed as follows:
- Three Black-Green (one black-bright green) all have been soldered together and soldered to a loop terminal connector. These are been bolted on the positive (+) lead on the coil along with the red Crane Cams Module wire.
- Two White and a Yellow all soldered together and soldered to a loop terminal connector. These are been bolted on the negative (-) lead on the coil along with the yellow Crane Cams Module wire.
- Black wire from Crane Cams Module has been grounded to fender
- Three prong wire connector to three prong plug going to Optical Sensor in Dizzy.
Timing Part
Lined up TDC mark #1, removed rotor cap and made sure button was facing #1 cylinder on block. Yes it did, also fell under number one plug terminal on Dizzy cap. This means that in that moment if the car were running, #1 cylinder would fire. Removed cap and made mark on dizzy housing edge lining up as explained in the Crane cams instructions.
replaced guts as explained in manual. Reinstalled dizzy by lowering back onto helical gear, gear did not move as I lowered it with the button lined up in the same way it was removed, notch on helical gear comfortably accepted the two protrusions on the bottom of dizzy shaft foot.
Last adjustments. I turned the engine on, I had the red LED on the module lighting up. As I started minimal adjustment of the optical sensor the light went off and on. I am guessing this is happening because the sensor is working as it should. Also, I witnessed two very loud sparks being emitted from the coil. I am not sure if the light has to be off or on when everything is lined up correctly. I did notice the slight tell-tale mark on the plastic wheel in the photo (thnks for pointing out), I may have to impose a few minor adjustment. Next, I am also almost positive that most likely, it is a matter of a slight adjustment that is causing the module not to work properly. I would love to chat on the phone, anytime this is good for you, I can call. I am on East Coast, so I will call when you instruct me it will be good for you. Only one issue...What does PM me mean? Sorry for any misunderstandings. Thanks for the time you are dedicating in helping also.[/i]
Well, here I am again, I thought I'd give up but I had to diagnose this thing correctly before giving out the facts of what is happening. Still no luck in getting the car started. With all of the wires soldered together as you can see in the pics, I was getting spark to all of the wires only when the plug that connects to the module under the coil is umplugged. So, the unit works fine. The problem is that the car won't start. I am wondering if that module plug has something to do with the injectors, because even though I am getting fuel...no go. I tried to unsolder the wires and connect only the positive green that comes on with the ignition, leaving the rest umplugged, and grounding the negative side of the coil, no spark. I ma not sure what is going on with the rest of the other wires, but I guess I need to get a book at this point, I need to find out what those other green wires as well as the two white and yellow (negative) appartain to. Just thought i'd touch base, you were probably wondering what was going on with me. 
I wish i could help more but I am unfamiliar with the milano wiring harness. I have one here but i don't know the ins and outs of it. Milano spark box has more connections and may, as you say, in part trigger the FI.
However, you should get spark with ign green to coil pos and the crane system hooked up. It does not make sense that you would not get spark because it is now an isolated system.
Maybe gren from ign is not really the right power line to use. perhaps this comes from the spark box rather than the ign as a safety thing so both fuel and spark can be cut off?? I will look at my milano harness and see if i can follow them.
Try , as a test, a direct line from the bat to coil (+) and use the white wires (the coil (-)) wires one at a time. Determine the tach wire and leave it unhooked. Determine the fuel injection line and hook up only this. all others unhooked. This wire should be the only connection from the ignition system to the fuel inj(unless, as you say, Alfa did some rewiring for Milano)
Since all triggering is done by the dizzy and spark primary current is done by the crane, you should get spark and with the one line to the fuel side on the coil, fuel too.
Try this, let me know..
However, you should get spark with ign green to coil pos and the crane system hooked up. It does not make sense that you would not get spark because it is now an isolated system.
Maybe gren from ign is not really the right power line to use. perhaps this comes from the spark box rather than the ign as a safety thing so both fuel and spark can be cut off?? I will look at my milano harness and see if i can follow them.
Try , as a test, a direct line from the bat to coil (+) and use the white wires (the coil (-)) wires one at a time. Determine the tach wire and leave it unhooked. Determine the fuel injection line and hook up only this. all others unhooked. This wire should be the only connection from the ignition system to the fuel inj(unless, as you say, Alfa did some rewiring for Milano)
Since all triggering is done by the dizzy and spark primary current is done by the crane, you should get spark and with the one line to the fuel side on the coil, fuel too.
Try this, let me know..
Ok, I will try that, also I was thinking that I could run a positive wire straight from the ignition box and simply ground the unit. Then perhaps let all of the green and (white+yellow) connect in the same fashion as they did prior to the mod. This should conserve the original wire setup. The only thing that puzzles me is that I checked the wires individually, and that I was not getting any negative charge from the white nor the yellow wire. With the test light hooked to the negative I found the ignition on off wire effortlessly (+), but the test light hooked to the positive side of the battery does not light up on any of white and yellow wire. If any of these had a negative charge I should have gotten the test light to come on...go figure. I am wondering if the zapped module (part which I tried to bypass and ultimate reason for me utilizing the crane) has anything to do with this.
I might be misunderstanding you..I am not sure what you mean by negative charge
..but be careful what you hook your test light up to. I would not test light the white wires as one runs to tach and one to the ign module under dash and one to power module(?). These are used to seeing a charge only after the coil resistance and are triggers (intermittent on off) lines. they are not true ground lines which is why you are not seeing the light come on.
a circuit tester (low voltage digital unit) may be better
also, i would not hook up a direct positive to the coil AND the green black lines. electron flow is actually the other way and you may damage something.
I would set up the system so that you have spark and then find the right coil neg wire that triggers the fuel injection and leave all othe rline off.
I don't have a milano diagram which is what you need.
..but be careful what you hook your test light up to. I would not test light the white wires as one runs to tach and one to the ign module under dash and one to power module(?). These are used to seeing a charge only after the coil resistance and are triggers (intermittent on off) lines. they are not true ground lines which is why you are not seeing the light come on.
a circuit tester (low voltage digital unit) may be better
also, i would not hook up a direct positive to the coil AND the green black lines. electron flow is actually the other way and you may damage something.
I would set up the system so that you have spark and then find the right coil neg wire that triggers the fuel injection and leave all othe rline off.
I don't have a milano diagram which is what you need.
-
brookstroutr
- Gold
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:55 pm
- Location: Keystone Hgts, Floureyeduh
allalfa,
From the fotos, the coil & lead look pretty knarly. I saw your older post asking about the coil's output. Have you checked for proper spark at the plugs? Your coil lead may not be allowing enough current and/or the coil's weak or bad as well or a combination. I've had this problem and although I'd get spark at a spark plug that was removed and laid on the engine for testing, it wasn't getting enough energy to spark under combustion pressure.
Try replacing these if you can.
From the fotos, the coil & lead look pretty knarly. I saw your older post asking about the coil's output. Have you checked for proper spark at the plugs? Your coil lead may not be allowing enough current and/or the coil's weak or bad as well or a combination. I've had this problem and although I'd get spark at a spark plug that was removed and laid on the engine for testing, it wasn't getting enough energy to spark under combustion pressure.
Try replacing these if you can.
Regards,
N. G. Brooks Robinson
'84 GTV6
'84 M635CSi
N. G. Brooks Robinson
'84 GTV6
'84 M635CSi
Brooks and Xrad, the latest suggestion may not be too far fetched, I have a slightly separate notion. The other day I got everything to work except for the car starting, I adjusted (raised) the optical pickup to further clear the disk. I am getting the red light every time the trigger sees through the window, with ignition on and engine cranking, a great hot spark coming out tof the coil. Holding the coil wire over half an inch from the coil mouth the spark is loud, thick and clear, regularly hits as it should, so, I am guessing no problem here. I analyzed the spark power at wires and sure enough, no or little intermittent spark. I do not believe the problem to be the coil but the rotor button instead. Here is why: the button I had was a different type than the solid composite type that Xrad shows in the afore posted pic. Mine was made out of some type of sheet molded compound (plastic), the fat part of the shell was hollow and all I had to do was cut that sleve off to reveal the internal smaller sleve to clear the pickup. I found that in a spot there is a little metal showing, probably I may have dug too deep, probably the spark power loss happens through all of this. Maybe there is partial spark shooting out of the side of the button shaft, thus loosing continuity necessary. Last night I found in my garage a spare button that came out one of the four dizzys I have (this is like the one Xrad shows in the pick and is undoubtedly a better kind), I carefully milled it down with my dremel. It is solid, only when I went to test the battery was dead 
. I hooket the charger and will try again tonight. I will let you know. Worst case scenario I will order a new module from IAP, then I am going to get the car running with one of the spare dizzys and after reinstall the ignition to see if it works.
. I hooket the charger and will try again tonight. I will let you know. Worst case scenario I will order a new module from IAP, then I am going to get the car running with one of the spare dizzys and after reinstall the ignition to see if it works.