Track Car Preperation

Alfa Romeo ONLY please!
Post Reply
Bareass
Silver
Silver
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:00 am

Track Car Preperation

Post by Bareass » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:57 am

Hey all,
This winter i plan to rebuild my front an rear suspention on my 84 GTV6 (3.0 swap, soon to be 24v)

for the sake of the thread, lets say this car is mainly a track car, we can go into why i'm crazy enough to drive it on the street later.

What things are a must when building up a suspenion system? should i go poly bushings everywhere? what torsion bar, rear spring, shocks, roll bar, should i be looking into.

how about front and rear alignment?

it doesn't have to be full race, but ride quality is not really a concern.
'84 GTV6 w/3.0
3.0L 24V engine stand!
User avatar
Mats
Verde
Verde
Posts: 4059
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:26 am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Track Car Preperation

Post by Mats » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:50 am

Wow. :shock:

Not trying to be rude here but this is how it works:
You study the truly MASSIVE amounts of excellent information available on this site and sort out what is relevant to your goal.
Then draw up a concept and plant it here, then ask for comments.

To ask someone to write a recipe (a book) to you is usually a great way to get zero replies and generally make you look like an ungrateful b-tard... :wink:

I will give you one piece of advice though, if you're looking for serious laptimes and have racing rubber and a cage, forget poly bushes. They are completely useless. Spherical bearings are the only way to go.
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-

GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
kevin
Verde
Verde
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:09 am
Location: Esher, UK

Re: Track Car Preperation

Post by kevin » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:03 pm

Yeah Mats is 100 percent correct . You gotta sort out what suits you and their is no best set up because we all run different size tyre , different types of tyres , heavy 17 inch rims vs super light 15 inch rims , vs fully gutted cars compared to cars with full interior weight 150 kg more - blah blah
If you want a really good bandage solution that you can do seriously good lap times with then RS kit will work . Its designed to be a quick simple bolt on kit that does improve the car a 100 percent , however you might not like its concept and you have access to 33mm torsion bars with adjusters at a good price then that could be the solution as this is what Autodelta used on our race cars . To the other direction if you have reinforced the body with roll cage tied right through you can just run coil overs only .
Just read through a lot of posts see what suits you best but a full RS kit (Ron Simons) is still easiest option to get going with .
Greg Gordon
Verde
Verde
Posts: 1552
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm

Re: Track Car Preperation

Post by Greg Gordon » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:09 pm

I used to get this question over and over. My answers are here in the suspension section. http://www.hiperformancestore.com/Performance.htm

For a road car, what I describe as "Stage 2" works really well and doesn't break the bank.

For an all out track car, as Mats says spherical bearings everywhere and a lot of other hardcore mods are needed.

Greg
Bareass
Silver
Silver
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:00 am

Re: Track Car Preperation

Post by Bareass » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:04 pm

Right,
So I was originally thinking of going with poly bushings For the upper and lower control arms, sway bars, shock mounts, and watts link. cylindral bearing for DeDion triangle.

Front sway bar from my Milano verde, and 30mm torsion bars. I have both Koni yellows and bilstiens so I could try either.

But in the back of my head, I keep thinking about the RS coil overs
'84 GTV6 w/3.0
3.0L 24V engine stand!
User avatar
75evo
Verde
Verde
Posts: 899
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:56 am

Re: Track Car Preperation

Post by 75evo » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:34 pm

Either go with RS or Beninca for off the shelf stuff. Or else go with a full custom setup (custom valved Beninca Konis, RS full race, Ohlins, etc). Dont waste your time on the typical Konis and Verde sway bar.

Forum members have been over this since the late 90s.
Bareass
Silver
Silver
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:00 am

Re: Track Car Preperation

Post by Bareass » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:57 pm

are the 30mm bars a good size though? or should i just go for the RS system?

as for the car, it will have full interior, and no AC. Heartercore, may get removes and repaced with a simple and light defrost fan. Sound deadening material may be removed. and some seam welding might be done when i got a 24v swap.

I will have R spec tires, but not slicks.... At Least for now.

My plans are to start attending time attack events. I'm looking to have the fastest times i can manage with a street car. But the car doesn't see a whole lot of street.
'84 GTV6 w/3.0
3.0L 24V engine stand!
User avatar
killaz
Platinum
Platinum
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:44 am
Location: Belgrade, Serbia

Re: Track Car Preperation

Post by killaz » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:07 pm

Or revalve your Bilsteins and convert them to coilovers? Read as much as you can and take notes becouse you're in danger of spending serious ammount which could be of some use later (car trailer, slicks, fuel, exotic dancers etc...)
Bareass
Silver
Silver
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:00 am

Re: Track Car Preperation

Post by Bareass » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:26 pm

I made a post in the suspension section, talking about converting to coil overs.
Here is the link:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4478

as for the rest of my track prep.

I found a source for drop spindles, I am thinking of going with a 1.1 drop (my options being 0.8", 0.9", and 1.1"). will that bring my front roll center up enough after lowering the car until the LCA as level?

also, I'm getting ready to order the bushings, and start removing the front suspention components from the Milano parts car. as of now i'm thinking poly bushings for the shock mounts, LCAs, UCAs, Sway Bars links and mounts, and the Watts link. I'm going to use the Milano Verde's front sway bar. I'm thinking 105 ball joints for the castor rods, and a sherical bearing for the de dion triangle.

Does this sound like a good shopping list?
Anyting you would change?
Anything i missed?

Thanks again!
Bareass
'84 GTV6 w/3.0
3.0L 24V engine stand!
kevin
Verde
Verde
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:09 am
Location: Esher, UK

Re: Track Car Preperation

Post by kevin » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:50 pm

do not use ploy bushing in upper control arm as they come out . You welcome to find out for yourself but just trying to save you the pain . Lower control arm use original alfa .
Bareass
Silver
Silver
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:00 am

Re: Track Car Preperation

Post by Bareass » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:31 pm

thanks a lot Kevin, I'll order original for the control arms.
'84 GTV6 w/3.0
3.0L 24V engine stand!
Duk
Verde
Verde
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: South Australia

Re: Track Car Preperation

Post by Duk » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:15 am

When I first got my 75, 1 of its original top control arm bushes had worked its way out of the arm.
The Performatek polyurethane top bushes have 2 additional PU pieces that keep the main bush pieces in place. But when you start to use decent caster angle, the bushes get very distorted. How long they last like that is anyone's guess.
kevin
Verde
Verde
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:09 am
Location: Esher, UK

Re: Track Car Preperation

Post by kevin » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:19 am

With the two steel washers they managed to come out after 10 laps and that was the latest top arm kit .
User avatar
Mats
Verde
Verde
Posts: 4059
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:26 am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Track Car Preperation

Post by Mats » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:01 am

If you compare a NEW rubber bushing and a PU bushing the PU lose in every aspect (unless the rubber one is designed badly), the problem is that everybody is comparing PU to 15yo/160 000Km old rubber and well, suprisingly they feel the PU is better... :)
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-

GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
Post Reply