164 24 valve conversion

darryl longley
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164 24 valve conversion

Post by darryl longley » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:34 am

Ok
Ive a 164 super 24valve engine with the motronic ecu (261 200 663)coil packs fuel injection harness etc which I am now looking at converting to rwd
I have removed all the ancillaries and the sump
I have a spare 2.5 engine and a 3.0l engine in my current gtv6 which is fine and not ready for changing but again while ive got the 24valve and the 2.5 12 valve I might as well take my time and have a go at the conversion
first question and I'm sure there will be plenty more to come is

I have the sump off and my question is this
when I remove the flywheel will I then simply put the sump on or do I have to change the oil pump pick from the gtv6 to the 24v

I have tried to download a pic but even when resized it says its too big
darryl longley
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Re: 164 24 valve conversion

Post by darryl longley » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:22 am

managed to re size
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darryl longley
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Re: 164 24 valve conversion

Post by darryl longley » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:53 am

I also have a 166 24 valve engine
which parts are interchangeable to the 164 eg heads etc
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Re: 164 24 valve conversion

Post by KevinR » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:39 am

Hi Darryl , I will post some pics of sump showing where you need to cut to allow pump to clear . Also I put three studs in sump as this allows you to tight up front section below pulley so stop oil leak . You will under stand that when you get to that part . The sump holes at the rear need to be reamed slighly as the dont line up . Be careful on length of bolts and use silicone under bolt washer as the reamed hole does allow oil to leak .
Oil pump gets blocked off as per pic and Gtv 6 pick up used .
If you need flywheel spacer I have . Their is a place here you can send your 2.5 Gtv flywheel to get matched to the 3.0 front wheel drive flywheel . I will dig up those details when on email . At same time you get the gtv6 flywheel skimmed down . This stops you from having to strip down engine and balance it .
It's much easier to use the 164 based engine but I would still use the chain driven one from 166 as they do have some better features and availability of parts ie cam belt tensioners, water pumps . But if you have not done it before and want less stress stay on the 164
It would probably cost you atleast £1k more with fabrication on the 166 motor to convert .
So parts you can transfer from the 166 motor would be the intake runners and that's about all . You can't use the cam covers which is a pity as they have a proper or ring type gasket design .

Let us know how you go .
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darryl longley
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Re: 164 24 valve conversion

Post by darryl longley » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:52 am

Thank you very much for the advice and photos
They are more than helpful
Ive been busy last couple of week so not done anything else since the last post
As soon as ive modified the oil pump I will look at the flywheel
I have a 3.0 12v engine which I believe uses a thicker flywheel which doesn't need the spacer
is this the case

Thanks again kev
ill update soon
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Re: 164 24 valve conversion

Post by darryl longley » Thu May 04, 2017 2:26 am

on with the sump and oil pump
On other forums there is mention of a slight difference in the thickness of the oil pump body where it fastens to the block the figure is around 6mm tbh the pick up sits well down in the sump so cant see this being a problem
I see where you have to grind the sump to get round the oil pump now and by taking the lower pan off its easy to see where this is needed
Ill get a blanking plate made up for the original pick up outlet
so far so good
darryl longley
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Re: 164 24 valve conversion

Post by darryl longley » Thu May 04, 2017 2:32 am

hi kev
how much would you like for the 4mm spacer as I may as well use the 2.5 flywheel seeing as it is not in the car whereas the 3.0 is in my gtv6
when you say take the 2.5 flywheel to be balanced to the 24valve is this just a case of taking both flywheels in to a balancing place and then fitting the 2.5 flywheel to the 3.0
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Re: 164 24 valve conversion

Post by KevinR » Sat May 06, 2017 2:59 pm

The 2.5 flywheel must be matched to the 24v 3.0 flywheel and they might as well lighten it at same time . I have forgotten which cranks protrude more so just check that you have more or less 11mm from block to flywheel teeth . PM me for spacer .
If lighten must leave material near the webs as not to weeken it .
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Re: 164 24 valve conversion

Post by darryl longley » Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:36 am

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I have adapted the sump and successfully bolted the front and rear of it after the advice from kev and everything fits nicely
I'm now looking at what to do with the oil filter
On some conversions I have noticed that some have drilled and tapped then added a large stud to fit the gtv6 oil filter and one has used the adapter from the 164 24 valve after cutting and off the fwd engine mount and drive shaft carrier
Which way is the easiest and if you use the 164 adaptor where would you mount the oil cooler
Thanks in advance
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Re: 164 24 valve conversion

Post by Jim K » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:07 am

One note here regarding what I see in your pic. The blue anodized fitting in view, looks like it has a very thin diameter. Please check to make sure the bore inside is at least 12mm and not smaller, otherwise your lubrication circuit will suffer from insufficient flow. Fittings chosen should not be smaller than AN-10 size.

Jim K.
darryl longley
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Re: 164 24 valve conversion

Post by darryl longley » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:24 am

Jim thank you for your observation
The picture was taken from alfabb website
So apart from the wrong size unions would you advise going down the adaptor route rather than the drilling and threaded fitting as used by kev r
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Re: 164 24 valve conversion

Post by 75evo » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:52 am

Actually I was just thinking, is there an appreciable oil pressure drop with an inline oil cooler? I was thinking, why not run the oil cooler through an electric pump that has fittings drilled at the sump? Since I'd like to run the engine at 7500 rpm I'd like the complete circuit to be as short as possible.
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Re: 164 24 valve conversion

Post by darryl longley » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:15 pm

I haven't the faintest idea what you just said
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Re: 164 24 valve conversion

Post by 75evo » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:26 pm

What I meant was, make the oil cooler's circuit or path separate from the standard oil lubrication path. The oil cooling path should have its own electric pump. That way it doesn't make the lubrication path longer. I've been using the usual oil cooling setup as shown in your photo. Nothing wrong with it, but that was in a 12V that only went to 7000 rpm.

I guess it could be a moot point because many people, myself included, use inline oil coolers and I've never heard of it being a problem.
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Re: 164 24 valve conversion

Post by Jim K » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:06 pm

Why re-invent the wheel? Sandwich plates are universally used and never presented cause for concern. However, most I've seen have small bores and have to be opened up -a fairly easy job with a Dremel tool. And not just the in/out bores, don't forget the internal thermostat (oilstat) port! I always do this on mine and use -10 fittings/hoses.

Jim K.
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