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with the bracket fixed to the diff (or in the case of the dedion alfas, to the dedion tube), the roll center is fixed at the pivot point height (fixed in relationship to the ground). its relationship to the center of gravity changes, but its relationship to the front roll center (roll couple) is fixed. which is better? hard to say, but with all respect to carrol smith, i think alfa chassis engineers are at least as good, and made their design in relation to the projected uses of the car. imho, you have to always read mr smith as if you were designing a pure (single purpose) race car from the ground up - if you read his book, it is very clear that he does not like sedans as race cars and is basically short with & dismissive of the subject.
andy kress

barbone119 wrote:It's relationship to the center of gravity changes, but its relationship to the front roll center (roll couple) is fixed.

I disagree, if the rear roll center is fixed to the ground it can not be fixed in height to the front one since that moves up and down depending on bump.
The problem with having it the std Alfa way is that the roll stiffness will increase in bump and decrease in rebound. Unpredictable

Or one could just forget about all this theoretical discussion and just make the chassis "track stiff" and then go driving...
A bit like making the front end rock hard with humongous springs and AR-bars to mask the fact that the front end geometry is pretty much cr@p when you lower the car.

Mats wrote: A bit like making the front end rock hard with humongous springs and AR-bars to mask the fact that the front end geometry is pretty much cr@p when you lower the car.

Or modify the front uprights to improve the lowered geometry and change the rear centre pivot location to match

I agree that you have to do something to get the rollcenter up at the front, if you lower the car a lot, but if you lower the pivot of the watts link, you move the rollcenter down there at that end and induce more roll?!

Lowering the roll centre makes it weaker in roll since the centre of mass gets a greater leverage.
If you raise the front roll center back up to around where the stock is the balance front to rear is the same as on a stock car which is fine and you don't need the silly HUGE springs and HUGE anti-rollbar up front.

The IMSA 75 at the museo storico has the pivot moved up, not down.

hmm what the hell is this ?

A chassis jig for making custom watts linkage mounting points. Nice adjustable camber too.

hmm what the hell is this ?

someone with a large budget...... This thing is soo increadable fast on the track


(daydream mode) Who wants to sponser me, so I can quit my job and build something that beautifull.


Ps the imsa at museo storico wasn't that a rally car?

Yes, Tarmac Rally.