Re: Upper control arm angle mods
From what I can tell, Vince Sharp modifies a different balljoint. 1 that has a long shaft and a left hand thread on it to begin with
Re: Upper control arm angle mods
How effective is this in reducing understeer and/or roll when compared to lengthening the suspension upright or modifying the lower A-arm?
Re: Upper control arm angle mods
Why not attack the real problem, super soft wheel rates?
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
Re: Upper control arm angle mods
Super soft wheel rates can't be the only problem.
But that "knuckle riser" raises the upper A-arm a lot. I think drop spindles doesn't go that far.
But that "knuckle riser" raises the upper A-arm a lot. I think drop spindles doesn't go that far.
Dr. Alban
Re: Upper control arm angle mods
It's the root cause. The front is extremely soft and rolls plenty -> outside wheels gets lots of positive camber and lose grip.
That's why the "huge roll bar mod" works.
That's why the "huge roll bar mod" works.
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
Re: Upper control arm angle mods
I want to reduce body roll on my road car without too much detriment to ride comfort, so do I reduce roll by installing a thicker anti-roll bar, thicker torsion bars, RS (or similar) kit, A-arm/upright or upper link modifcation?
Re: Upper control arm angle mods
The problem definitely has to do with the wheel rate. But once you lower the car, the geometry is no longer optimal due to the a-arms angle relative to each other. The extended/drop spindle will fix this issue. The "correct" way of handling this is to fix the geometry as well as to correct the super soft wheel rate. But for most drivers, fixing the wheel rate will have a more apparent effect.
For the occasional track and fast street car with lowered suspension, I would do the following:
GTV6:
25.4mm torsion bars
bigger sway bar
drop spindles
75 V6:
Install TS bumpers
Move battery to the back
25.4mm torsion bars
bigger sway bar
drop spindles
But even for normal road use, the 25.4mm torsion bar and a big sway bar will work well with slight lowering.
For the occasional track and fast street car with lowered suspension, I would do the following:
GTV6:
25.4mm torsion bars
bigger sway bar
drop spindles
75 V6:
Install TS bumpers
Move battery to the back
25.4mm torsion bars
bigger sway bar
drop spindles
But even for normal road use, the 25.4mm torsion bar and a big sway bar will work well with slight lowering.
Dr. Alban
Re: Upper control arm angle mods
Mats, doesn't your race car use upside down lower balljoints?Mats wrote:Why not attack the real problem, super soft wheel rates?
The geometry is deffinately a problem. The suspension actually gains positive camber during bump.
A narrow car, with a relatively high center of gravity, suspension geometry that starts out with a low roll center and that roll center goes down at a higher rate than lowering the car. Chuck in the movement to positive camber on compression and soft factory spring rates (torsion bars), it's no wonder when you see pictures/footage of these things cornering, they are leaning heavely on the outside front tyre that's been pushed into 3+ degrees of positive camber.
My opinion: Correct the front suspension geometry with either drop spindles or knuckle risers and then play with springs (TB) and if you still need to, antiroll bars.
Re: Upper control arm angle mods
Is that your guess?The suspension actually gains positive camber during bump.
Re: Upper control arm angle mods
No matter the geometry, the car seems to be more fun when the wheel rates are higher. Therefore, increase spring rates first, then fix the geometry
I've been driving a car with struts for a while now...bolted on some $80 roll center adjusters and was done with it. I'll see you guys on this forum when I have some money
I've been driving a car with struts for a while now...bolted on some $80 roll center adjusters and was done with it. I'll see you guys on this forum when I have some money
BMW's are the ultimate driving machine!
I'm kidding -- please don't ban me.
I'm kidding -- please don't ban me.
Re: Upper control arm angle mods
Grant,
Most of us here own and drive Alfas.
Therefore we are all short on money
Most of us here own and drive Alfas.
Therefore we are all short on money
MR1 Zig (I made rate!)
Machinery Repairman USNR
Machinery Repairman USNR
Re: Upper control arm angle mods
Haha, that's funny.
Well, not that I'm broke, that's not funny.
Someone wants a 164 3.0 24v Super?
Well, not that I'm broke, that's not funny.
Someone wants a 164 3.0 24v Super?
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
Re: Upper control arm angle mods
I base that on looking where the vertual swing arm pivot point is in relation to the wheel.Micke wrote:Is that your guess?The suspension actually gains positive camber during bump.