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zambon · Post by **zambon** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:23 pm

I have seen threads with loose references to upside down ball joints. What is involved with this modification? Is it a good way to lower the center of gravity in the front without changing suspension geometry? What are the negatives?

TS_turbo · Post by **TS_turbo** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:40 am

with upside down balljoint u must use big wheels 16-17

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:05 am

It DOES change the geometry. Luckily for the better. With this I mean higher roll center and more camber gain.

Mine easily fits into a 14" wheel but the brakes don't.

TS_turbo · Post by **TS_turbo** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:20 am

Micke wrote:It DOES change the geometry. Luckily for the better. With this I mean higher roll center and more camber gain.

Mine easily fits into a 14" wheel but the brakes don't.

pics please

i cant imagine this mod to fit 14" wheel

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:59 am

Here. For reference the brake disk is 298 mm.

pancho · Post by **pancho** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:49 pm

I still dont understand what that pic is showing. Can someone explain is easy to understand terms pls

zambon · Post by **zambon** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:49 am

Micke,
Is that a custom upper control arm? Is it to aide in fitment of the coilover? It looks to me like the lower balljoint is upside down, while the upper one is in normal position. Correct?
I was thinking of flipping both upper and lower ball joints to maintain the same geometry, but if this geometry is better...
Very interesting stuff.

Pancho,
I will try to post a photo of the stock arrangement for comparison. I have the front wheels off of my parts car.

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:02 am

Yep. Custom.
It's lighter, bigger hole for the shock, uniball inner end and length adjustable.

Keeping the "normal" upper ball joint adds camber gain and has the same effect as the famous knuckle raisers in the 105 cars.

The steering arm is bent to reduce bump steer.

zambon · Post by **zambon** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:18 am

Do you know what size heim/uniball you have on the inside of that arm? I think I am going to have such a piece made.
Thanks so much,
James

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:38 am

Sorry. It's 10 years ago and I can't remember. The same size as the bolt anyway.

SydneyJules · Post by **SydneyJules** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:12 pm

So Micke, for a street car like mine, with 105 castor rods, and bilsteins, as opposed to coilovers, would you recommend going with the upside down route, or knuckle risers?

PACE sell the knuckle risers for $250 AUD, so not too expensive for a straight fit, with no other mods.

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:34 am

For street I wouldn't do either.

For track, the upside down way. Call me strange but I don't like the knuckle raisers much. Adds camber gain but doesn't help roll center. Actualy even makes it slightly worse.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:06 am

Micke,I see your running droop straps on the FRONT suspension...Now thats a first for me..Were you unloading any of the driven wheels that you went this route??

Without droop straps (or cable in this instance)I still lift a front inner wheel..

On the front wheel drive gta`s we limited droop to 5mm to trabsfer weight to the opposite front wheel...

Explain your use thereof??

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:23 am

The droop stops don't touch in driving. They are just there to prevent the springs from falling when lifting the car.

I don't lift any wheel with the straps. I have similar in the rear as well.

I do have a plan to make them stiff enough and easily adjustable to use in cornering. This might work as it would have an aerodynamic advantage (reduced ground clearance while cornering). Has to be tried though.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:40 am

Don't, it's the worst panic modification ever. If you try to do it both in the rear and front you will get a car that will go from pig understeer to wild oversteer and vice versa in a split second. I have tried it, and I will never try it again.

Barry, I'm assuming you are talking 105 chassis here? You still had the std geomery in the rear suspension?