ALFAGTV6.COM

grant · Post by **grant** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:14 am

With the constraints you just described, I'd just get some 25.4mm torsion bars. They shouldn't be that expensive and will save you a lot of time.

sh0rtlife · Post by **sh0rtlife** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:21 am

the biggest constraint im trying to get around is the T-bars requireing me to raise the floor and the weight

....wouldnt be so bad if the t-bars stoped befor the seats start but in this project the body will be about 2 inches lower than where a body on a milano sits wich puts the t-bars into the seats....ive got some work arounds for makeing the t-bars work if i have to ...just looking over my options befor i force myself 1 way or the other...cause once i pick 1 there wont be any turning back

Jarle · Post by **Jarle** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:42 pm

Grant: I have been visiting Ron at the Nordschleife 1 to 2 times a year the last 3 seasons and always had his "new stuff" added to my car , 3.0 V6. Also the stiffer springs but his setup has never got rid of the understeer. Last year i disgussed this with Ron and he admitted that the V6 still suffers from some understeer. If he has updated the setup resently he might got rid of the problem, but at the end season last year all of his V6`s had the well known understeer.

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:47 am

If you get rid of the t-bars, what changes do you have to make to the lower A-arm, which is designed for torsional load at its mount point, in order to use just coilovers?

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:20 am

Jarle wrote:Grant: I have been visiting Ron at the Nordschleife 1 to 2 times a year the last 3 seasons and always had his "new stuff" added to my car , 3.0 V6. Also the stiffer springs but his setup has never got rid of the understeer. Last year i disgussed this with Ron and he admitted that the V6 still suffers from some understeer. If he has updated the setup resently he might got rid of the problem, but at the end season last year all of his V6`s had the well known understeer.

If I were to rent out cars to a bunch of fools like us I would make them understeer too.

The V6 me and Jim had before lunch was understeering pretty badly though, I didn't like it at all. A touch of understeer at the limit is probebly only a good thing on the NS but that 75 had way too much for my taste.

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:51 am

X:
the lower A-arms are so stiff (read: HEAVY) you don't need to do anything to convert to coilovers. The thing you should do is make them 70% lighter.

Jarle · Post by **Jarle** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:29 am

Mats wrote:
If I were to rent out cars to a bunch of fools like us I would make them understeer too.

Totally agree

.

On the other side thats what I am talking about. At a relative high-speed track as nurburgring-nordschleife a little understeer is okay as it does not appeal to a such an experienced driver. Rons setup for the V6 has far to much understeer. I don not think many people who have drove these cars (V6!) would diasgree....

Post by **Zamani** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:04 pm

Does Ron's 3.0 V6 has US bumpers and battery in the front? Just those 2 remove 80 lbs at the edge of the car.

kevin · Post by **kevin** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:01 pm

Sh0rtlife, back to an earlier post on comfortability I would say my Road/track(116 gta) car which has 115kg front and 50kg rear(standard torsion bars) 30mm front anti roll bar is dam uncomfortable on bumpy roads(tar roads) which is obvious and great on freeways and superb on the track. This set up is not even a full race set up either. What i am trying to say is you must choose what you want and then be prepared as I dont even use my 116 gta that much on the roads because of its set ups , I prefer to use my stock standard GTV 3.0L if I am going on a club run even though it has 60kw less. May be our roads are bad. If this car had a race seat in it , it would be totally unpleasent. I guess if your roads are pretty good you should be fine.
Luckilly my setups in the white track car (also same setup as the 116 gta) have no problems with understeer and both feel well balanced now. (like big go karts). Then when I use the stock Standard GTV3.0l on the track it is the king of understeer(absolute pig).
Gotta choose what you want to do.

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:02 pm

Thanks Micke......suspension tricks are one of my weakpoints!

sh0rtlife · Post by **sh0rtlife** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:38 pm

guess i should have been a tad more specific but im picking up all the info here that wasnt makeing sense or that i didnt find....and i thank you all for it

the "project" lloyd/alfa will likely NEVER see a track unless someones got a club of issetta's mini's and other "micro cars" running on a track and they let me join LOL

...somehow i doubt i would pass any kind of "alfa tech inspection"

now since i never got to drive the milano hard...does it handle the same as a gtv6?...cause i personaly love the way the gtv6 handles lil ruff around the edges in places...but considering im used to driveing stuff from the 50's 60's and 70's she handles like shes on rails to me

im not overly concerned about "improveing" the suspension when going to coilovers i just dont want to make it "worse"..a lil improvement would be nice, but mostly looking at the weight drop from loseing the t-bars as well as allowing the floor and body of the car to sit lower on the engine, suspension, drive tunnel as well as alowing my 6'3 body to sit lowwer in a car that feels like it was built for ppl under 5foot

kevin · Post by **kevin** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:13 pm

I ran coil overs only for a while on the road car until the bottom bushing in the coil over collapsed which inturn destroyed bottom of shock and finally broke the bottom off.(car just fell onto its wheels - lucky as as it could have been a serious accident)) This was not an RS or Bilstein shock. This would not of happened if this coil over was designed correctly to take this extra punishment. Cant see a problem with RS as it has a brilliantly made lower section to the shock . But you would have to check with Ron if its designed to take extra abuse for road use on coil over only.Just make sure you check all your mounting points thoroughly when you go coil over only.
Dawies road/rally GTV(coil overs only) never had issues in this area and often got a bit airborne in some of the stages. I know I am rambling a bit but this is a serious part of your car regarding your safety.

sh0rtlife · Post by **sh0rtlife** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:42 pm

wich is EXACTLY why im asking as many ?'s as i can think of in advance