Installation
Topic for MegaSquirt kit installation issues.
Oh my, it runs on the first try!
Hey everyone, I got my MS to run on the first try. Thanks to everyone. Time to go to MSEFI and add my Milano 3.0 to the list of 'squirted Alfa's.
Couple of questions though (well a lot, but these are the first two). One, where are y'all passing the vacuum signal through the firewall? And two, where are you getting your ground from inside the car? Right now I have my vacuum tubing and ground cable coming from the engine bay through the passenger window...although I could paint some neon paint and put blue LED's on them, this is purely temporary.
Right now I can't restart the engine because its flooded. Time to learn how to use MSTUNE.
Oh, the alternate fuel pump circuit works, but the pump runs whenever the ignition is on, which isn't too smart.
Bill, smiling in MD
Couple of questions though (well a lot, but these are the first two). One, where are y'all passing the vacuum signal through the firewall? And two, where are you getting your ground from inside the car? Right now I have my vacuum tubing and ground cable coming from the engine bay through the passenger window...although I could paint some neon paint and put blue LED's on them, this is purely temporary.
Right now I can't restart the engine because its flooded. Time to learn how to use MSTUNE.
Oh, the alternate fuel pump circuit works, but the pump runs whenever the ignition is on, which isn't too smart.
Bill, smiling in MD
Bill in MD
'88 Alfa Milano Verde x 2
'77 Fiat Spider
'88 Alfa Milano Verde x 2
'77 Fiat Spider
Bill,
Congratulations and great job. You'll have a lot of fun tuning. Feel free to email me your MSQ file and any datalogs if you need some help.
Where the main EFI harness passes through the firewall theres a huge gommet there. On the top and bottom of the grommet well clear of the wires there are 2 holes. Take a 1/4" drill and enlarge the hole and pull the MAP tube through there. All of a 5 minute job.
Your switch type TPS will still activate flood clear during cranking. The code says if the ADC count is above 128 and cranking < 300rpm don't squirt. Floor the gas pedal and crank and that will clear the flood condition. The flooding and FP running are probably related because of the priming pulse.
Use MegaTune 2.20 for the initial run. MT2.25B is a little complicated for the first run. You can integrate 2.25B later. Go to the constants page and set priming pulse to something low like 2.0ms, and set your cranking pulses low say 2.0 @ 160 and 5.0 @ -40. Then slowly raise the values until the car starts easily. You won't flood it again after that. Make sure your opening time is 1.0 and not lower because that will send more fuel than you think because the actual PW accounts for the 1.0ms opening time.
Make sure the PWM% and MS are correct. I recall you're using the FB board so set PWM% to 100 and PWM time threshold to 25.4ms.
The FP will run briefly when you turn the key for the priming pulse. Every time you cycle the key it primes then turns the pump off until it senses cranking. Bring up the realtime display screen under 'tuning' in MT and watch what it does.
If you still have problems, start datalogging before you turn on the key, turn on the car, crank and start it and send me the datalog. I can tell what's going on during cranking/starting from that.
If the car runs, you're getting good grounds. Don't worry about it. Grounds are 1-19 on the MS board and 16,17 and 35 from the L-Jet connector which goes right to chassis gound which are the grounds on the cam cover bolt.
HTH
-Peter
Congratulations and great job. You'll have a lot of fun tuning. Feel free to email me your MSQ file and any datalogs if you need some help.
Where the main EFI harness passes through the firewall theres a huge gommet there. On the top and bottom of the grommet well clear of the wires there are 2 holes. Take a 1/4" drill and enlarge the hole and pull the MAP tube through there. All of a 5 minute job.
Your switch type TPS will still activate flood clear during cranking. The code says if the ADC count is above 128 and cranking < 300rpm don't squirt. Floor the gas pedal and crank and that will clear the flood condition. The flooding and FP running are probably related because of the priming pulse.
Use MegaTune 2.20 for the initial run. MT2.25B is a little complicated for the first run. You can integrate 2.25B later. Go to the constants page and set priming pulse to something low like 2.0ms, and set your cranking pulses low say 2.0 @ 160 and 5.0 @ -40. Then slowly raise the values until the car starts easily. You won't flood it again after that. Make sure your opening time is 1.0 and not lower because that will send more fuel than you think because the actual PW accounts for the 1.0ms opening time.
Make sure the PWM% and MS are correct. I recall you're using the FB board so set PWM% to 100 and PWM time threshold to 25.4ms.
The FP will run briefly when you turn the key for the priming pulse. Every time you cycle the key it primes then turns the pump off until it senses cranking. Bring up the realtime display screen under 'tuning' in MT and watch what it does.
If you still have problems, start datalogging before you turn on the key, turn on the car, crank and start it and send me the datalog. I can tell what's going on during cranking/starting from that.
If the car runs, you're getting good grounds. Don't worry about it. Grounds are 1-19 on the MS board and 16,17 and 35 from the L-Jet connector which goes right to chassis gound which are the grounds on the cam cover bolt.
HTH
-Peter
The true joy of an Alfa Romeo is behind the wheel.
Helpful links:
http://www.not2fast.com/megasquirt/
http://www.not2fast.com/megasquirt/mt/2.20/
http://www.not2fast.com/megasquirt/mt/MSnS-Extra/
http://www.not2fast.com/megasquirt/mt/experimental/
http://www.not2fast.com/megasquirt/mt/prerelease/
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/index.html
http://bellsouthpwp2.net/s/_/s_moseley/ ... irt/msgui/
-Peter
http://www.not2fast.com/megasquirt/
http://www.not2fast.com/megasquirt/mt/2.20/
http://www.not2fast.com/megasquirt/mt/MSnS-Extra/
http://www.not2fast.com/megasquirt/mt/experimental/
http://www.not2fast.com/megasquirt/mt/prerelease/
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/index.html
http://bellsouthpwp2.net/s/_/s_moseley/ ... irt/msgui/
-Peter
The true joy of an Alfa Romeo is behind the wheel.
Darnit Jim, He's dead!
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. My MSbox is dead. I moved the box while I was tuning it and everything went dead, even with the Stimulator connected. Time to go to MSEFI.com and do some research.
Peter, thanks for the tuning suggestions. They seemed to be working. I have Greg Gordan's stage II injectors though, and I think I needed smaller pulsewidths than in the tables I got from you and Steve R. The A/F ratio was always pretty rich. There was a significant stumble off of idle too (but see TPS comment below).
Also, I seem to have no TPS signal. That'll be something to figure out once I get the ecu running again.
Thanks,
Bill
Peter, thanks for the tuning suggestions. They seemed to be working. I have Greg Gordan's stage II injectors though, and I think I needed smaller pulsewidths than in the tables I got from you and Steve R. The A/F ratio was always pretty rich. There was a significant stumble off of idle too (but see TPS comment below).
Also, I seem to have no TPS signal. That'll be something to figure out once I get the ecu running again.
Thanks,
Bill
Bill in MD
'88 Alfa Milano Verde x 2
'77 Fiat Spider
'88 Alfa Milano Verde x 2
'77 Fiat Spider
How did the box die? How are you testing it on the Stim? Are you using the pigtail with the LMB box?
If you want post your questions here I can take a shot at it. Do you get any LEDs at boot? Do you get no power at all? Check the voltage regulator U5. If you get LEDs and no signals on the stim see if you can get it into the bootloader. Try reflashing the 2.98 code.
You probably have your TPS hooked up backwards. It should show increasing ADC counts as you press the pedal. Wire as follows:
Ljet 3 -> MS 26 (+5v vref)
Ljet 2 -> MS ground (1-19)
Ljet 18 -> MS 22 T-Pos
Your TPS has nothing to do with PW at this point. I think you're missing the tuning philosophy here.
First determine req_fuel based on injector size. I'd expect it to be somewhere around 11.5 with 24lb injectors, 9.5 with 28lb injectors. (lb/hr = cm3 / 10.1).
You should be using the 2.98 MAPdotAE code that uses MAP sensor ADC counts instead of TPS which will be irrelevant right now except for flood clear. TPSdot threshold should be .98v/s so cams don't trigger an accel event (TPSdot threshold is used in place of a MAPdot threshold).
Tuning methodology:
Turn AE, WUE and GEGO off as follows:
Set all warmup bins to 100%
Set TPSdot threshold to 10v/s
Set EGO step % to 0
Then:
Find the correct req_fuel using the calculator
Find a decent VE table (which you have)
Get priming pulse and cranking pulse right
Get it starting and idling smoothly and consistantly
Apply ASE at 15% for 250 cycles
Apply WUE so it starts and idles cold.
Apply AE as follows:
TPS Threshold .98v/s
2v/s 1.0
4v/s 2.0
8v/s 4.0
15v/s 5.0
Increase the WUE bins and AE bins slightly. You'll notice a slugish response when you get too much AE. Use the trouser seat dyno to determine when you have them right.
If you need help flashing the MAPdotAE code, drop a note here. I'll find a link to it for you and instructions using Hyperterminal or download.exe.
To reiterate, turn ALL enrichments off for now until you get it running well with just the VE table and req_fuel.
Using the stage 2 injectors won't change ANY setting except req_fuel. Don't change anything else. Opening times, limit and time should remain untouched. That's why MT tells you not to change them!!
HTH
-Peter
If you want post your questions here I can take a shot at it. Do you get any LEDs at boot? Do you get no power at all? Check the voltage regulator U5. If you get LEDs and no signals on the stim see if you can get it into the bootloader. Try reflashing the 2.98 code.
You probably have your TPS hooked up backwards. It should show increasing ADC counts as you press the pedal. Wire as follows:
Ljet 3 -> MS 26 (+5v vref)
Ljet 2 -> MS ground (1-19)
Ljet 18 -> MS 22 T-Pos
Your TPS has nothing to do with PW at this point. I think you're missing the tuning philosophy here.
First determine req_fuel based on injector size. I'd expect it to be somewhere around 11.5 with 24lb injectors, 9.5 with 28lb injectors. (lb/hr = cm3 / 10.1).
You should be using the 2.98 MAPdotAE code that uses MAP sensor ADC counts instead of TPS which will be irrelevant right now except for flood clear. TPSdot threshold should be .98v/s so cams don't trigger an accel event (TPSdot threshold is used in place of a MAPdot threshold).
Tuning methodology:
Turn AE, WUE and GEGO off as follows:
Set all warmup bins to 100%
Set TPSdot threshold to 10v/s
Set EGO step % to 0
Then:
Find the correct req_fuel using the calculator
Find a decent VE table (which you have)
Get priming pulse and cranking pulse right
Get it starting and idling smoothly and consistantly
Apply ASE at 15% for 250 cycles
Apply WUE so it starts and idles cold.
Apply AE as follows:
TPS Threshold .98v/s
2v/s 1.0
4v/s 2.0
8v/s 4.0
15v/s 5.0
Increase the WUE bins and AE bins slightly. You'll notice a slugish response when you get too much AE. Use the trouser seat dyno to determine when you have them right.
If you need help flashing the MAPdotAE code, drop a note here. I'll find a link to it for you and instructions using Hyperterminal or download.exe.
To reiterate, turn ALL enrichments off for now until you get it running well with just the VE table and req_fuel.
Using the stage 2 injectors won't change ANY setting except req_fuel. Don't change anything else. Opening times, limit and time should remain untouched. That's why MT tells you not to change them!!
HTH
-Peter
The true joy of an Alfa Romeo is behind the wheel.
I looked up the flow rates on Gregs site. The S-2 L-Jet injectors come out at 23.8 lb/hr or about 240cm/3.
Inputting the following into the req_fuel calculator:
3000 cc
6 cylinders
23.8 lb/hr
13.1 AFR
Yeilds 15.1 req_fuel
Ok while that's all well and good, the VE table has a lot do with what the ultimate PW will be. Getting to the PV=NRT calculation, the VE table can get to the same PW with a higher VE number and lower req_fuel.
Make a note of the current req_fuel number and input 15.1 on the constants page, 2 squirts/alternating.
If you use the Scale VE, input the req_fuel you have right now for old and 15.1 for new and let it scale.
You can then scale the VE using the realtime tuning or MST. Once you get it running again, make those changes and go for a drive then email the the datalog along with your MSQ file. I'll take a look.
I did this with Davids car a few weeks ago and it only took a few emails back and forth to get it running well.
-Peter
Inputting the following into the req_fuel calculator:
3000 cc
6 cylinders
23.8 lb/hr
13.1 AFR
Yeilds 15.1 req_fuel
Ok while that's all well and good, the VE table has a lot do with what the ultimate PW will be. Getting to the PV=NRT calculation, the VE table can get to the same PW with a higher VE number and lower req_fuel.
Make a note of the current req_fuel number and input 15.1 on the constants page, 2 squirts/alternating.
If you use the Scale VE, input the req_fuel you have right now for old and 15.1 for new and let it scale.
You can then scale the VE using the realtime tuning or MST. Once you get it running again, make those changes and go for a drive then email the the datalog along with your MSQ file. I'll take a look.
I did this with Davids car a few weeks ago and it only took a few emails back and forth to get it running well.
-Peter
The true joy of an Alfa Romeo is behind the wheel.
Peter, thanks for the tuning suggestions.
My box is completely dead - no LEDs, won't communicate with the computer, when I plug the Stimulator directly into the MS box I get no LEDS.
Obviously I need to trace the supply voltage (from Stimulator for example) back to the regulator and find out what's going on. I have no idea how this happened. I merely pulled on the vacuum tube a little and everything died. Something inside the box must have shorted as I can't find any lose leads in my wiring harness.
Thanks for the U5 suggestion. I'll start at the 37 pin connector, move to U5 and onwards. Hopefully its something simple and then I can go back to tuning.
Thanks!
Bill
My box is completely dead - no LEDs, won't communicate with the computer, when I plug the Stimulator directly into the MS box I get no LEDS.
Obviously I need to trace the supply voltage (from Stimulator for example) back to the regulator and find out what's going on. I have no idea how this happened. I merely pulled on the vacuum tube a little and everything died. Something inside the box must have shorted as I can't find any lose leads in my wiring harness.
Thanks for the U5 suggestion. I'll start at the 37 pin connector, move to U5 and onwards. Hopefully its something simple and then I can go back to tuning.
Thanks!
Bill
Bill in MD
'88 Alfa Milano Verde x 2
'77 Fiat Spider
'88 Alfa Milano Verde x 2
'77 Fiat Spider
I saw you posted the CPU was dead on the other thread.
Did you try flashing it or at least getting it into the bootloader?
Connect your serial cable and open a hyperterminal session using the com port (probably com 1), 9600, N 8 1.
Put the boot jumper in place and power up using the stim.
You should get a
Boot>
prompt.
Type W for wipe. It will respond with complete...
Then U for upgrade.
On the hyperterminal window click send file, then send text file. Select "all files" in the selection window and browse to the bg2.98-MapdotAE.s19 file and click it. Wait about 20 seconds and will come back with a complete... again.
Hit X for exit, remove the boot jumper and power cycle. You'll have to download the MT settings again because flashing sets the defaults.
This comes up on the MS list at least once a week. A <wipe> and <upgrade> usually fixes it.
HTH
-Peter
Did you try flashing it or at least getting it into the bootloader?
Connect your serial cable and open a hyperterminal session using the com port (probably com 1), 9600, N 8 1.
Put the boot jumper in place and power up using the stim.
You should get a
Boot>
prompt.
Type W for wipe. It will respond with complete...
Then U for upgrade.
On the hyperterminal window click send file, then send text file. Select "all files" in the selection window and browse to the bg2.98-MapdotAE.s19 file and click it. Wait about 20 seconds and will come back with a complete... again.
Hit X for exit, remove the boot jumper and power cycle. You'll have to download the MT settings again because flashing sets the defaults.
This comes up on the MS list at least once a week. A <wipe> and <upgrade> usually fixes it.
HTH
-Peter
The true joy of an Alfa Romeo is behind the wheel.