Related to the Bowling & Grippo Fuel Injection system.
User avatar
Murray
Verde
Verde
Posts: 622
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:16 am
Location: Lac Brome Quebec - Canada

Post by Murray »

Kevin don't worry it's not supposed to come on with your configuration,only applies to PWM (pulse width modulated) idle valve etc.You'll be using the AAV (aux.air valve) which is mounted on the passenger-side valve cover and operates independantly of MS.
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
User avatar
kredden
Silver
Silver
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:52 pm
Contact:

Post by kredden »

Thanks, would have been nice if they would have said that!

Now time to clean the board of flux and then make the DB37 -> Bosch connector wiring.

I plan on trying to get this working first with the basically stock system:

* Keep AFM for now, I'm assuming I can just use the built in IAT sensor for now until I build my own intake setup and substitute in the GM closed element IAT sensor I bought with my MS kit.

* Stock TPS, I got a couple of the Volvo 850 ones at a local pick-n-pull for a whopping $2 ea! But I'll wait to put that in until the baseline is working.

* Stock injectors, I've got some circa 2004 Greg Gordon stage II injectors for later.

* I've got the Innovative WB O2 kit that I'll use on the initial go.

I've seen the few messages about the fuel pump wiring mod, trying to figure out what is easiest to do here. I'm leaning towards an on board solution but I don't quite yet grasp what needs to be done.

What is the absolute bare minimum wiring harness-wise I can do to get the MS into the car and the car started? Would prefer to start there and then change the other bits piece by piece so I know which piece didn't work easier than if I made them all at once.

Kevin
Kevin
87 Verde
86 Spider
Milano Registry Custodian (www.alfamilano.com)
User avatar
Murray
Verde
Verde
Posts: 622
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:16 am
Location: Lac Brome Quebec - Canada

Post by Murray »

Yes you pick up your IAT from the sensor in the AFM- can't remember the terminal no's

Your "stock" TPS will be of no value to you while running MS.It's an on/off switch and MS wants a signal from variable resistor like the Volvo one.You can set up initially using only MAP-based acceleration enrichment but you may regret the lack of "flood clear" while getting things going.Flood-clear is provided by MS seeing the TPS wide-open during cranking and shuts down the injectors.

For the fuel pump wiring I personally got fed up trying to come up with an on-board solution and simply used a relay with its coil wired to use the grounding signal from MS and the contacts in the pump circuit from the combo relay.Worked for me.
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
User avatar
kredden
Silver
Silver
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:52 pm
Contact:

Post by kredden »

Doesn't the stock TPS allow for the flood clear with MS? I'm pretty sure it does with the Bosch setup. I thought it was a three way, idle, on, and damn the torpedoes mode.

Anyway, I guess it wouldn't be that hard to hook up the Volvo one. I remember Kevin Oliver saying something about remembering the ground for that TPS, is the connection part for it different than what we have stock?

So many questions still!

Also I seem to remember something about modifying how or what was grounded to the case instead of somewhere else, did you do something like that or just use the DB37 connector?

What did you use for the tube to the MAP sensor, anything special or just some of that clear stuff? And what do you connect it to on the plenum?

Did no one come up with a fuel pump solution with the newer boards?

I thought building the board would be the hard part...

Kevin
Kevin
87 Verde
86 Spider
Milano Registry Custodian (www.alfamilano.com)
User avatar
Murray
Verde
Verde
Posts: 622
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:16 am
Location: Lac Brome Quebec - Canada

Post by Murray »

Kevin although it may be possible to rig a circuit to use the WOT switch on the stock TPS I don't see how you can get MS to work with it.In Megatune you'll have to set-up your TPS and it will look for 2 voltage values,one at closed and one at open throttle,it will then create a linear table of values between the two.
Wiring the Volvo TPS rquires swapping two of the terminals if I recall you swap the positions of the yellow and purple.
As far as grounding this is of great importance with MS.Do exactly what the MS instructions say, I took all the grounds to the bolt which attaches the MS mounting plate to the L-Jet location and then ran a single 14 gauge wire from there to the engine block.
For the hose to the MAP signal i used 1/4" black vacuum hose and teed it into the hose from the plenum to the fuel pressure regulator.It's important that you use non-conductive hose that won't collapse under vacuum.
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
User avatar
kredden
Silver
Silver
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:52 pm
Contact:

Post by kredden »

Murray, thanks for all the help. Time for me to read everything again and plan out in detail my next steps.

Kevin
Kevin
87 Verde
86 Spider
Milano Registry Custodian (www.alfamilano.com)
User avatar
kredden
Silver
Silver
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:52 pm
Contact:

Post by kredden »

Got hung up working on the Spider and getting the A/C fixed in the Verde (didn't want hot air blowing all the way to the convention and back!) but I'm itching to get on with the MS project. My next step is to build the wiring pigtail between the DB37 and the Bosch connector.

Looking through the service manual I wasn't able to find a pinout diagram for the Bosch connector and I could have sworn my AutoForce tester had one but it didn't. So poking around on this site I found this thread with a diagram

http://www.alfagtv6.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=166

Is this what you guys used? Is the posted pic accurate? Seems there was a little confusion around that.

I've also decided to go with the external relay setup for the fuel pump as I didn't really see any specifics on mods for the MS-II boards.

Kevin
Kevin
87 Verde
86 Spider
Milano Registry Custodian (www.alfamilano.com)
User avatar
Murray
Verde
Verde
Posts: 622
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:16 am
Location: Lac Brome Quebec - Canada

Post by Murray »

Kevin for the L-Jet connector pins this is a usefull diagram.
Attachments
L-JET PINS.jpg
L-JET PINS.jpg (73.12 KiB) Viewed 14977 times
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
User avatar
zambon
Verde
Verde
Posts: 549
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:01 pm
Location: Northern Wisconsin

Post by zambon »

Murry,
Could you tell me more about your external fuel pump relay? I am wondering if it is simply a relay run off of the ignition or if it is one that shuts down when the motor isnt rotating?
thanks,
James
User avatar
Murray
Verde
Verde
Posts: 622
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:16 am
Location: Lac Brome Quebec - Canada

es

Post by Murray »

James all I did was put a relay coil in the circuit from 88b of the combo-relay and terminal 20 (L-Jet) - 37 MS.This grounds the coil through MS.The contact controlled by the relay is between 88d of the combo-relay and the pump +
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
User avatar
P.Webb
Gold
Gold
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:59 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Post by P.Webb »

Murray wrote:Kevin don't worry it's not supposed to come on with your configuration,only applies to PWM (pulse width modulated) idle valve etc.You'll be using the AAV (aux.air valve) which is mounted on the passenger-side valve cover and operates independantly of MS.
FIdle should still come on. If it's set as a +12v switch type below the configured temperature. The PWM type is for an IAC like the 164 has.

I'm not sure what your advice is trying to say here.

-Peter
User avatar
kredden
Silver
Silver
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:52 pm
Contact:

Post by kredden »

Couple more questions on the wiring:

Murray wrote:Kevin you should probably go with 50a.The ignition signal from the hall sender in the distributor is much "cleaner" and is easier to work with.You will have to make some small modifications to the car's wiring (pull-up resistor) when you install your MS in the car but we''ll guide you through that process when you get to it.
OK, I need some guidance on this mod to the wiring. Can you tell me what I need to do here? I'm not sure what a pull-up resistor is and where I'd need to put it and what mods I'd need to make to the wiring harness. I'm assuming I'd need to make some since the default is for the coil to be used for the RPM signal for LJet pin #1 right?

The second question I have is on wiring up the external fuel pump relay instead of making the mod on the board. Do I understand it correctly as shown in the attached pic (for some reason the posted pic is mangling my text a bit, the top one should be "combi-relay 88d"?

Thanks,
Kevin
Attachments
MS Fuel Pump Relay.jpg
MS Fuel Pump Relay.jpg (108.2 KiB) Viewed 14827 times
Kevin
87 Verde
86 Spider
Milano Registry Custodian (www.alfamilano.com)
User avatar
Murray
Verde
Verde
Posts: 622
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:16 am
Location: Lac Brome Quebec - Canada

Post by Murray »

Kevin it looks like you have the wiring correct for the external fuel pump relay.

For the pull-up resistor - I don't have access to my notes at the moment but basically you'll need to install a 1 o2 2k resistor between the +12 qnd the signal out wires from your hall sensor to make it work.If I can get to my notes I'll provide more info.
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
User avatar
kredden
Silver
Silver
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:52 pm
Contact:

Post by kredden »

Thanks Murray that would be a great help!

Kevin
Kevin
87 Verde
86 Spider
Milano Registry Custodian (www.alfamilano.com)
User avatar
Murray
Verde
Verde
Posts: 622
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:16 am
Location: Lac Brome Quebec - Canada

Post by Murray »

Kevin here is a rudimentary sketch of the pull-up resistor required on the hall sensor.Basically when the hall triggers the resistor causes the "0" signal line to output +12V which is what MS wants to see to signal an ignition event.On mine I spliced the resistor between the 2 wires and then enclosed it in heat-shrink tubing.
Attachments
HALLSENSOR.jpg
HALLSENSOR.jpg (14.81 KiB) Viewed 14735 times
Last edited by Murray on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Post Reply