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Mats · Post by **Mats** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:41 am

Would it be possible to use MS only for ignition control?
Huge modifications to both hardware and software or pretty much go out of the box?

I'm getting more and more annoyed that I can't find an ignition only system that doesn't cost like as a quality EMS...

enzo · Post by **enzo** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:40 am

yes it's possible...look at the megaspark firmware
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/megaspark/

i don't know if it's possible to run ignition only with the extra firmware...

Steve R · Post by **Steve R** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:08 am

Hi Mats

You should be able to run spark only, in the same way it can run fuel only or indeed both. Just ignore the fuel injector output wiring and use the spark output only. Latest several versions of code cover both outputs.

Obviously it'll still need hooking up to all the engine sensors including plenum MAP, but I expect the wiring could be piggybacked in with any other FI system?

One question though, if going to all the trouble of building MS for spark, why not just use it for both fuel & spark seeing as 98% of the installation work is already done? just curious.

enzo · Post by **enzo** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:23 am

Steve R wrote: One question though, if going to all the trouble of building MS for spark, why not just use it for both fuel & spark seeing as 98% of the installation work is already done? just curious.

if he want keep the carbs?

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:16 pm

Steve R wrote:Hi Mats

You should be able to run spark only, in the same way it can run fuel only or indeed both. Just ignore the fuel injector output wiring and use the spark output only. Latest several versions of code cover both outputs.

Obviously it'll still need hooking up to all the engine sensors including plenum MAP, but I expect the wiring could be piggybacked in with any other FI system?

One question though, if going to all the trouble of building MS for spark, why not just use it for both fuel & spark seeing as 98% of the installation work is already done? just curious.

No, for a ignition only setup I really only need engine speed/timing and TPS.
I need carbs due to regulations.

Luis · Post by **Luis** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:15 pm

Yes you can, only need a TPS, inputs of engine temperature and air, the only modification to the board is the 2k2 ohm resistor for bosch sensors.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:45 pm

So MS won't work without engine/air temp? Sounds very weird, what if I just solder a resistor in place and the box always get say 80deg engine temp and 20 degree air temp?
Can't see why I would want to change timing to fit air and water temps.

Luis · Post by **Luis** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:49 am

Change timing to fit air and water temps?

I don´t know how hot the air can be in your car, and you can have a rev limiter if your water comes too hot.

Anyway, you can place resistors instead.

What kind of ignition are you going to use? "stock" bosh?, EDIS4?, 1.8 turbo distributor?

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:09 am

Well, I don't need any fancy functions that can go haywire, I don't have a rev limiter now and that seems to work pretty well...

Anyway, will use some kind of fixed distributor, a hall sensor should be sufficient for the MS I guess or does it need more stuff?
I got some TS dizzys laying around that would probably do the trick.

The goal is a simple dizzy system that can be programmed with a laptop, since it's a race engine I can even live with not having a TPS.
Simplicity rules!

Steve R · Post by **Steve R** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:19 am

Doh ! didn't realise it was on carbs !

Anyway, yep you can just rig the sensor inputs with resitors to set a temperature and run ignition map independant of temps etc. On a race car I expect this will be absolutely fine.

There are tuning options in MS to add timing advance into a cold coolant engine to help idle speed and also to retard timing if air temps get too high, useful on a road car, less so on a race car perhaps? Are your air inlet temps always nice and cool? If the answers unknown then you might as well put a sensor on the MS for this anyway, the info could help you to get cooler air temps into your carbs.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:27 am

The way I see it: My current ignition is so incredibly simple and yet it works so very well, no stuff like temperature regulation, it really only alter ignition advance to match the revs, no vacuum or anything, not really useful when you are at 100% or 0% with some trailing in between.
An air temp sensor in the intake could be interesting from other perspectives though and might be a worth while addition.

I can't find any info on how to run MS with a TPS rather then a MAP, is there really no such option??
Maybe emulating a MAP with the TPS and some resistors/amplifiers just to get the 3D map? Not that I need it on this engine but you never know when you need to run individual TBs and injection...

Luis · Post by **Luis** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:20 am

Yes, you can.

Download the megatune program.

Open settings.ini and change this line to unset:

#unset SPEED_DENSITY "Speed Density Fueling Algorithm (Off=Alpha-N)"
; Some code variants have been modified to
; allow alpha-N, beware of partial implementations.

Then, open megatune software, go to constants, change speed density to Alpha-N on the control algorithm menu.

And you must have now TPS vs RPM tables !!

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:09 am

sweet, tnx...

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:17 am

After looking at my options in the engine build vs. regulations for racing it looks like this option is on again. But with EDIS rather then dizzy and MSD.

Looks like I need to alter the hardware a bit for EDIS but it shouldn't be a big problem, right?

Anybody have an intelligent solution for TPS on carbs?

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:46 pm

Scored some hardware today.

Couldn't reach that stupid CAS but will make a new attempt when the engine is lifted out.
Any ideas about the plug leads? Is it possible to get aftermarket leads that fit the coilpack? Those leads won't fit my application very well.

Now for some pinouts...

Using MS for ignition only, possible? (now: Full MS+EDIS)