Introduction

Please post a pic of yourself or your car tell us about yourself and let us know where you are from.
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cchan
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Introduction

Post by cchan »

Hi,
I am new to posting so I am not sure if this is going to go to to Vic's introduce myself or hopefully this will start a new string for me. I think that Michael is the admin so please forgive me if I put this in the wrong area and send me an email on the correct way to start new posts.

I have been into cars since my brother started me with the bug. Him and my brother in law owned a small speed shop and we had alot of fun. We had mostly American Cars and one of my fasted car was a Duster with a Hemi installed in High School. It did not corner well but it went fast. Since then I have have been fortunate to have all types of American and European Sport cars.

I just sold my 2000 BMW M5 and I totalled out my most current red sports car. I have normal cars for everyday and I may invest in another red sports car in the near future. Until then, I have decided to pull out my Alfa Romeo GTV 6 for my hobby for now. I will have my associate take some pictures shortly and post it to the forum.

My Alfa Romeo is Dark Gray and I am the original owner. It is stock except for a Full Zender Kit that I had installed a couple of year after I purchased it. My Alfa was ignored in 1988 when I purchased another sport car. Since then it was parked outside our home and was used rarely. My experience with this car is that I spent alot of $ maintaining it and things always went wrong with it. My wife does not even want to drive in it when it rains. Anyway, it is alot cheaper than my other cars were so it make sense at least to me to restore it.

I really like this site and it has given me alot of insight to my Alfa. It appears that the most one can sell an Alfa for in excellent condition is $10,000.00. I was wonder what one might think one will sell for it it was in concours condition. I have never had a concours condition car since once I purchase my autos I drive them alot and they end up looking very used with high miles, rock chips, and dings . My Alfa is no exception. When it works it great. Therefore, I am considering my budget for this project currenly.

Since I know everyone here is an Alfa fan I was wondering what everyone else thought Should I go with a concours grade, show car,
or restore with modications and drive it. I look foward to your responses and I am gratefully that I have this site for guidance.

Greg Gordon
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Post by Greg Gordon »

Hi Chan,
Welcome to the most hardcore automotive forum on the net. I too have dark grey GTV6, it's my daily driver and I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't have much intrest in the concourse show cars. Strangely enough I also built and owned a hemi powered muscle car. A 1971 Challenger with a built up 392 Hemi. It was a beast and probably still is somewhere.

I think the best way to enjoy these cars is to drive them. It doesn't have to be everyday, but to let it sit and only pull it out to polish and take to shows is a waste. You might as well get a stock 55 Chevy if that's all you plan to do.

I have a GTV6 page here: http://www.hiperformancestore.com/Gtv6Fiat600.htm It has a lot of good information.

Greg Gordon
www.hiperformancestore.com

cchan
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Post by cchan »

Thanks for the input. I really do love my Alfa thats why I kept it. I have driven it alot with 78,000 miles on the speedometer. It probally has more mileage on it but the indicator melted and the speedmeter does not work since it is stuck at 25 mile @ hour. I read the link at it inspires me. Is your Alfa reliable? I remember that AAQ cancelled this car on my account.

Hope to get to know you more as my project progresses.

cchan
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Update Pictures of Car being restored

Post by cchan »

Hi Everyone.

Ok, so I am actually moving ahead with this project :D . My associate did not take the pictures of the car before they started removing everything so this was not good :( . Since my last post the car started right up and after having Roger check over everything I drove it to the warehouse where we will be doing the work.

I am posting the pictures of the car almost ready to be sandblasted. The good news is that their is little or no rust so we were very happy. We were lucky to get everything taken apart without breaking the glass. We are going to remove the windshield next but just wanted to make sure we could acquire new rubber. After looking online I hope we can get all new molding since I need them. We are going to pull out the engine in the next month so that we can fully detail the engine compartment. I was originally not going to do this since the engine in running strong with only 73,000K. However, after looking at this the engine compartment will look shabby since I am going to change the color of the car to red. Carlos has restored over 10 cars for fun and he has suggested this extra work.

We have never done an Italian car so we are looking at the de dion suspension set up and are not sure if we really want to take it apart or just standblast the suspension attached to the body. The front suspension is exotic as well with the torsion bars and uneven wishbones. We are not sure if we should play with this as well. My options are take everything off and only have the body to be standblasted or to Sand Blast with de dion suspension setup & front suspension intact and detail and update if necessary on a later phase. Any suggestions on this?? :?:

Finally, we think we can take out the engine and all engine components and put it back together again. However, we never did an Italian car so this is another issue. We are going to have to take out the engine for sure so the questions is do I have Roger (my mechanic) do this or do we do this. I have basic mechanical knowledge and removed engines and rebuilt them before in high school but that was along time ago. We have all the tools as well. So my question is an Alfa harder to complete this task than an American car. The car's that I have done this on before is a 70 Duster where we put in a 426 Hemi; 70 Roadrunner which we put in a 440 6 pack; & a 69 Camero Z28 where I put in a 302 4 Barrel. These cars appear easier since they did not have so many additional electrical parts. My goal would be to dress up the engine, etc and have it start right up again. Any comments on this would be greatly appreciated as well. :?:

Thanks to everyone for there input and here are some pictures of my project in progress.
Attachments
Alfa 1.JPG
Alfa 1.JPG (106.32 KiB) Viewed 17194 times
Alfa Back Passanger Side Restore.JPG
Alfa Back Passanger Side Restore.JPG (86.94 KiB) Viewed 17198 times
Alfa Front Driver Side #1 Restore.JPG
Alfa Front Driver Side #1 Restore.JPG (91.78 KiB) Viewed 17199 times
Alfa Front Restore #1.JPG
Alfa Front Restore #1.JPG (78.21 KiB) Viewed 17202 times
Alfa Interior Restore.JPG
Alfa Interior Restore.JPG (95.89 KiB) Viewed 17203 times

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Zamani
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Post by Zamani »

Chan,

What about a 24V for your car? You can buy a cheap 164 LS for about 3K, strip it out, and sell it for parts. Keep the engine for your GTV6.

A cheaper solution is a stock 2.5 with Greg Gordon's supercharger and VEMS fuel injection. That would give you about 230 bhp. Or go for modified 3.0 12V. That is what I have. Even at its current state, it is very enjoyable to drive with lots of power. Something along the line of 11:1 forged pistons, modified heads, S-cams, VEMs efi, CSC headers. This should give you around 200-210 wheel bhp.

Hey isn't Piedmont close to Oakland? I think I will be there with my Milano at the ARA's All Italian Day (Alameda). There should be a few Milano 24Vs as well as my modified Milano 3.0 12V.

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Alfa Restoration

Post by cchan »

Hi Zamani,
I have not totally visualized the final outcome of my Alfa Project. It was suggested to me to keep the car as original as possible. It would be nice to have additional power if it did not mean the car would be less reliable. I think the power at 160 hp is very low and would like more power.
Right now my focus is on the two above issues to move to the next step since I have along way to go. Please give me some input on these two questions if possible. :wink:
Piedmont is in the middle of Oakland in the Hills. I did not know there is an Alfa event in Alameda. I would love to met you there and see how your upgrade on HP is in real life. :D Let me the know details and I will be there if my schedule fits.

cchan
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greg gordon's supercharger

Post by cchan »

Hi Zamani,
Can Greg's supercharger get 400 hp from a 2.5 V6? I noticed that the AMG use supercharger's. I did see the event that you were discussing in another section of the forum and I will not be traveling then. Therefore, I would love to met with you and see your modified Alfa. I am sure I will like it. My Alfa will not be ready by then but I am sure I can make a donation and see all the Italian displays.

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Zamani
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Post by Zamani »

Chan,

My car isn't really that modified. It looks very stock in fact.

I'm 100% that you cannot get 400 bhp from a supercharged 2.5 which has stock components. I think 225 bhp is about the max that can be had.

With cams, fuel injection, headers, intercooler, etc, maybe 300 bhp? But I think even that is being optimisitc and reliability is questionable.

If you can put in forged pistons and rods, than 300 bhp should be possible with lesser chance of breaking the engine.

cchan
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Meeting at Italian Event

Post by cchan »

Hi Zamani,

I am considering the modification with the engine but I really don't need more HP. Needs and wants are always at odds. Anyway, when are you going to be at the event to I can check out your Alfa.

Let me know.

Greg Gordon
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Post by Greg Gordon »

As usual Zamani is correct.

400 horsepower or even 300 horsepower is a pretty tall order. For comparison take a look at the 300 hp Subaru WRX STI. The STI has a 2.5 liter motor with about 15 pounds of boost, a large intercooler with a water sprayer to keep it cold. It also has 24 valves and very modern fuel injection. It's ignition system is far more modern and it can advance timing for optimal power without the risk of knocking. Then there are the basic advantages it has due to the fact that it's port designs are 20 years newer. While it's possible to get an Alfa 2.5 up to that level of power, it's clearly going to be tough.

My daily driver has about 220 horsepower at the wheels on a stock engine with 10 pounds of boost, water/alchohol injection, and what I think is the best L-Jetronic fuel setup it can have. Now obviously with an intercooler, modern injection, headers, and perhaps S cams it could have quite a bit more but I would be worried about the stock pistons.

If you want a 300 hp supercharged 2.5, the motor should be rebuilt with forged pistons.

cchan
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Supercharger

Post by cchan »

Hi Greg,

Looks like the supercharger maybe the way to go. We are pulling out the engine this Saturday to prepare the car to be sandblasted. If I wanted your help to set me up with your supercharger and all items necessary to have increased HP but still be reliable what is your procedure to do this? As you can see by my in progess pictures my Alfa is looking pretty sad right now. However, I know that we will put it back ok. New custom paint. New interior that will be custom done since carpet, headliner, seats, dash, etc. seem impossible to get. My goal is to restore the car the way it was when I first bought it new in 1982. I know that I opened a can of worms but cann't give up now. If the wife doesn't see the $ I am spending on my Alfa I could budget the upgrade of the engine. I know that I may have to do the suspension as well and purchase some new wheels.

I know, I am crazy to do this. All my associates lease crazy cars but I love my Alfa. Therefore, who cares. It's my car anyway and you cann't go by an new Alfa in US. Therefore, once the project is done I will have a show condition Alfa.

Greg Gordon
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Post by Greg Gordon »

My procedure to make a reliable supercharged Alfa V6 is spelled out on my website on the SuperVerde page. Basically it's just forged lower compression pistons and a sensible amount of boost. Shot peening the rods would also be a good idea. If you don't use forged pistons you have to be really carefull with the boost, intake temps etc. etc.

Greg Gordon
www.hiperformancestore.com

cchan
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Progress Report On Alfa Project

Post by cchan »

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the information on the upgraded hp Gordon. We are considering our options and will decide this when we get ready to put the engine back into the car. I think I maybe using the forum incorrectly since I am really not getting alot of input on my last two questions. If the admin could give me any suggestions that would be great. Maybe I am in the wrong part of the forum for my project. Anyway, this is what we are doing:

We are moving forward with the body work without taking out the suspension front or rear for now. I really didn't get any feed back on this so we decided to deal with the undercarriage latter.

We have decided to do the engine removal ourselves since Roger (Mechanic) felt that he does not do restoration work at all. He feels that I should not take out the engine since it is working perfectly.

I am posting a picture of the engine ready to be removed. We still need to disconnect the drive train, exhaust, motor mounts, and some misc other connections.

We are doing this tomorrow. We studied this and it looks simple but I just want to ask if anyone knows the correct procedure to pull an Alfa Engine and is there anything special that we should be aware of? Maybe a certain trick to do this. We have never done this on an Alfa so I was hoping to obtain any suggestions or problems that anyone has ran into. :?:

Thanks for your suggestions. :D
Attachments
Alfa Engine Stage 1 Prepare to remove.JPG
Alfa Engine Stage 1 Prepare to remove.JPG (95.38 KiB) Viewed 16865 times

patzo_3l
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Post by patzo_3l »

remove the black piece of steel between the back of the engine and the bell housing. its pretty much a cover to keep stuff away from the flywheel, but u will have a much easier job if u remove it. just a tip u will thank me for later. i do it all the time and find pulling an engine out of the gtv piss easy.
patzo_3l

3l gtv6 turbo 85'
2006 147 gta selespeed
1990 75 twinspark
1998 spider
2.0l gtv 85'
33 1.7ie

cchan
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Engine Removal

Post by cchan »

Thanks for the suggestion patzo, I am off to pull the engine now and will post some more pictures with the engine out.

See ya.

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