What do I say?????Anyone know this G.M engine in another car????
Barry
Alfa-(Opel) V6??????????
What do I say?????Anyone know this G.M engine in another car????
Barry
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French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
Ya, Saab 9-3... With one or two turbo(s) 
But honestly, the Holden lump has only the block in common with the Alfa version. ALL the stuff is ALFA!
Gotta love chains.
But honestly, the Holden lump has only the block in common with the Alfa version. ALL the stuff is ALFA!
Gotta love chains.
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
there was some press about the alfa version in the local papers. its the holden v6 with a few different goodies.
alfa are modifying the heads to there own design to accomodate the JTS system, mentioned also changing the headers, cams and different computer tomfoolery. 80% common with the global v6
full article about the engine if you havent seen it already
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_2264/article.html
local press have cained the v6 engine in road tests. low power, poor fuel ecconomy and harsh/coarse power delivery. IMHO the alfa version look awfull compared to the current mill.
alfa are modifying the heads to there own design to accomodate the JTS system, mentioned also changing the headers, cams and different computer tomfoolery. 80% common with the global v6
full article about the engine if you havent seen it already
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_2264/article.html
local press have cained the v6 engine in road tests. low power, poor fuel ecconomy and harsh/coarse power delivery. IMHO the alfa version look awfull compared to the current mill.
so many times, people have drifted into my racing line and slowed down to early.
confirmation over the weekend, driving a friends new conformadore compared to the GTA i conviced an alfa dealer to let me try out its bloody awfull! i know there is a huge difference in body weights and vehicle dynamics but the engine sucks. flat exhaust note no induction chatter and a very flat power curve, which i guess is great for a auto family sedan, no good for an alfa. but you never know alfa may work wonders with cam/headers/chiping, we can only pray.
the only advantage i can think of is that it will only take a few months till the first turbo and supercharged conversion kits start to appear on the Oz market. so hopfully for the first time cheap mass market upgrade parts will be available for alfa engines. .
the only advantage i can think of is that it will only take a few months till the first turbo and supercharged conversion kits start to appear on the Oz market. so hopfully for the first time cheap mass market upgrade parts will be available for alfa engines. .
so many times, people have drifted into my racing line and slowed down to early.
Arese factory... The End
Hi guys, I will post some articles from Italiaspeed.com which were published some time ago. They are relavant to the end of production for the legendary Alfa V6 and also to the new "GM derived" V6 plus some more Alfa-Gm powertrain matters. I hope they are interesting to you...
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Union sources have confirmed this week that the famous Alfa Romeo engine and manufacturing plant at Arese, home to the legendary all-aluminium V6 powerplant, will shortly shut down for good.
A gradual winding down of activities at the historic home of Alfa Romeo has been well underway for sometime now. The marque's new generation of models, starting with the Alfa 159 and Brera which debut next week in Geneva, will both use V6 petrol engines based on blocks sourced from former partner General Motors.
The leaking out of this news comes less than a fortnight after the alliance between GM and Fiat was finally terminated.
At the same time as this much expected divorce was publicly announced, it was revealed GM and Fiat's five year old engineering joint venture project, Powertrain, was also to be dissolved.
Despite the unraveling of the Powertrain operation, which will see all the fixed and intellectual assets returned to their original owners, Fiat are going to continue to use GM-sourced larger capacity petrol engines, while the American firm, through its European Opel arm, will still make use of Fiat's highly-rated diesel line-up.
The 800 workers employed at the Arese engine plant will now lose their jobs, although some will be offered relocation. This will leave just Alfa Romeo's style centre, with its 400 staff, remaining on the site.
"Powertrain confirmed to us today that Alfa Romeo engines will no longer be made at Arese, said trade union leader Vincenzo Lilliu yesterday. "The assembly lines will be shut completely and the six-cylinder Alfa Romeo motor will now be replaced with an engine GM builds in Australia."
Arese: a name synonymous with Alfa Romeo
Construction of the giant new Arese factory began in 1960, and it was eventually to take three years in all to build. It replaced the long standing, but highly antiquated, Portello facility.
The first car off the new production line was the Alfa Romeo Giulia, in 1963, and more than one million versions of this model, in all its various guises, were to roll out of the factory during the the car's lifetime.
Five years after the factory initially opened and production commenced, in 1968, a huge new complex of offices was commissioned. The eye-catching new glass and steel frontage was the work of the project's Chief Architect Ignazio Gardella, with input and assistance from Anna Castelli-Ferrieri and Jacopo Gardella.
Today the Milan City Authorities are working hard to plug the huge gap being left in the area by the gradual departure of Alfa Romeo. A 'high tech' industrial zone is in the process of being created to take advantage of the many skills available. Keen to attract a 'showpiece' name to spearhead the new development, there were discussions last year with TVR, the English specialist sportscar maker, over assembling their Tuscan model on the new site, although plans eventually faded away.
--------------------------------------------
Union sources have confirmed this week that the famous Alfa Romeo engine and manufacturing plant at Arese, home to the legendary all-aluminium V6 powerplant, will shortly shut down for good.
A gradual winding down of activities at the historic home of Alfa Romeo has been well underway for sometime now. The marque's new generation of models, starting with the Alfa 159 and Brera which debut next week in Geneva, will both use V6 petrol engines based on blocks sourced from former partner General Motors.
The leaking out of this news comes less than a fortnight after the alliance between GM and Fiat was finally terminated.
At the same time as this much expected divorce was publicly announced, it was revealed GM and Fiat's five year old engineering joint venture project, Powertrain, was also to be dissolved.
Despite the unraveling of the Powertrain operation, which will see all the fixed and intellectual assets returned to their original owners, Fiat are going to continue to use GM-sourced larger capacity petrol engines, while the American firm, through its European Opel arm, will still make use of Fiat's highly-rated diesel line-up.
The 800 workers employed at the Arese engine plant will now lose their jobs, although some will be offered relocation. This will leave just Alfa Romeo's style centre, with its 400 staff, remaining on the site.
"Powertrain confirmed to us today that Alfa Romeo engines will no longer be made at Arese, said trade union leader Vincenzo Lilliu yesterday. "The assembly lines will be shut completely and the six-cylinder Alfa Romeo motor will now be replaced with an engine GM builds in Australia."
Arese: a name synonymous with Alfa Romeo
Construction of the giant new Arese factory began in 1960, and it was eventually to take three years in all to build. It replaced the long standing, but highly antiquated, Portello facility.
The first car off the new production line was the Alfa Romeo Giulia, in 1963, and more than one million versions of this model, in all its various guises, were to roll out of the factory during the the car's lifetime.
Five years after the factory initially opened and production commenced, in 1968, a huge new complex of offices was commissioned. The eye-catching new glass and steel frontage was the work of the project's Chief Architect Ignazio Gardella, with input and assistance from Anna Castelli-Ferrieri and Jacopo Gardella.
Today the Milan City Authorities are working hard to plug the huge gap being left in the area by the gradual departure of Alfa Romeo. A 'high tech' industrial zone is in the process of being created to take advantage of the many skills available. Keen to attract a 'showpiece' name to spearhead the new development, there were discussions last year with TVR, the English specialist sportscar maker, over assembling their Tuscan model on the new site, although plans eventually faded away.
Last edited by Hippo58 on Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Petros. Transaxleista!
Brera GTA 400 bhp
The recent news of development collaboration between Alfa Romeo and Maserati has sparked off a wealth of possibilities and rumours portraying an exciting future sports and luxury car line-up.
With the conclusion of the ‘put’ option saga, Fiat-GM Powertrain development is now coming to a close, opening up a new horizon of possibilities without the previous transparent restriction of the technology being fixed to suit the GM range.
A powerful new future: the 405bhp Alfa Romeo Brera GTA
Providing a taste of the new level of top end Alfa Romeo cars, it is now confirmed that the Alfa Romeo Brera GTA will feature a drivetrain that is far more potent than anything currently offered in the range.
Extracting the most out of the Powertrain deal, Paolo Massai and his team have heavily re-worked the internals of the so-called ‘HF V6’, a 3,199 cc block, bolting on twin turbo’s for the extreme GTA experience.
It appears that literally every component of the engine has been unbolted, and chucked in the skip. New liners have been fixed in position and fresh pistons fitted. Alfa Romeo style manifolds have been added, whilst the injection system and electronics have been designed to optimize engine performance characteristics. In the case of the GTA, the cylinder heads have been fitted with the new UNIAIR system, dispensing with the butterfly throttle valve.
As a result, the Brera GTA Biturbo engine obtains Euro 5 emissions standards, with power output peaking at an impressive 405bhp @ 6000rpm. Most surprising, however, is the 680Nm of torque that is throttled out through all four wheels, an estimated 13% increase over the 600Nm that would be available with a conventional engine without UNIAIR.
With this stunning engine mated to a six-speed mechanical Selespeed type gearbox, this attractive 2+2 is expected to guide a new generation of joint projects developed by Alfa Romeo and Maserati.
With the conclusion of the ‘put’ option saga, Fiat-GM Powertrain development is now coming to a close, opening up a new horizon of possibilities without the previous transparent restriction of the technology being fixed to suit the GM range.
A powerful new future: the 405bhp Alfa Romeo Brera GTA
Providing a taste of the new level of top end Alfa Romeo cars, it is now confirmed that the Alfa Romeo Brera GTA will feature a drivetrain that is far more potent than anything currently offered in the range.
Extracting the most out of the Powertrain deal, Paolo Massai and his team have heavily re-worked the internals of the so-called ‘HF V6’, a 3,199 cc block, bolting on twin turbo’s for the extreme GTA experience.
It appears that literally every component of the engine has been unbolted, and chucked in the skip. New liners have been fixed in position and fresh pistons fitted. Alfa Romeo style manifolds have been added, whilst the injection system and electronics have been designed to optimize engine performance characteristics. In the case of the GTA, the cylinder heads have been fitted with the new UNIAIR system, dispensing with the butterfly throttle valve.
As a result, the Brera GTA Biturbo engine obtains Euro 5 emissions standards, with power output peaking at an impressive 405bhp @ 6000rpm. Most surprising, however, is the 680Nm of torque that is throttled out through all four wheels, an estimated 13% increase over the 600Nm that would be available with a conventional engine without UNIAIR.
With this stunning engine mated to a six-speed mechanical Selespeed type gearbox, this attractive 2+2 is expected to guide a new generation of joint projects developed by Alfa Romeo and Maserati.
Petros. Transaxleista!
Alfa Romeo Twin Turbo - Alfa’s GM boomerang
Recent rumours emanating from Alfa Romeo’s development centre are being met with widespread acceptance by Alfa Romeo enthusiasts, who are keenly looking forward to the marque’s next generation of sporty cars.
Although it has to be anticipated that several of the projects in the development schedule will not make it into production, optimistic onlookers do however perceive a bright future. The current mentioning of Maserati parts sharing schemes, new large-capacity V8 power units, and all-wheel-drive thoroughbreds, all hammer home the desired direction of Alfa Romeo as a limited-compromise manufacturer of luxury sports cars.
Another, perhaps less-romantic side is the General Motors Powertrain joint venture. With many enthusiasts going green at the thought of characterless Alfa’s, it is worth mentioning that Alfa Romeo have an ironic and highly interesting past with General Motors.
This is a story which also ties in with the future 1.9 M-Jet Twin Turbo engine, a unit expected to debut on the Alfa 148 in 2006. The twin-turbo diesel engine is a result of the GM-Fiat Powertrain joint venture, with the general technology behind the engine already having been presented on the Opel Vectra OPC concept.
Fortunately, the advanced serial turbo charging technology which is to be used on the Alfa Romeo unit dispels the traditional disadvantages associated with bi-turbo systems, and allows for the ‘perfect’ combination of increased performance with lower fuel consumption.
The idea behind the new serial design is quite different from that of conventional parallel twin-turbo systems, with the two turbochargers being used both individually as well as collectively according to conditions.
At low engine speeds, up to 1,800 rpm, air induction is delivered without lag by a small, high spool rate turbocharger that is able to deliver up to 3.2 bars of pressure. The effect is immediate, with a tremendous 400 Nm of torque available from as low as 1,400 rpm on the 1.9 litre Opel prototype engine.
As the revs rise over 1,800 rpm, a butterfly valve, controlling the exhaust gas pressure to a second high volume turbocharger, starts to open.
With the rpm needle moving up to the 3k marker, the large turbocharger feeds increasing loads of air into the system, backed up by the additional boost of the small turbo.The exhaust gas butterfly valve opens fully at 3,000 rpm, with the large high volume turbo charger now in full control, dumping the engine with ever increasing amounts of cool air up to the red line.
The result is shockingly aggressive, like a steroid infuse gone berserk. There is no need to rev this engine to it’s limit, however, as the peak torque available between 1,400 and 3,600 rpm is where the acceleration is at its best. The 0-100 km/h dash is reached in a lightening 6.5 seconds.
Astonishingly, the new engine has delivered preliminary fuel consumption figures are lower than those of the current 1.9 litre JTD engine, making this a true masterpiece of engineering excellence.
And the ironic link with the past? Well, the Twin Turbo GM unit transpires in spirit from the 1983 Callaway C3 GTV 6, a car designed to Alfa Romeo’s specifications to trounce the Maserati Biturbo’s Stateside appeal.
The Callaway C3 GTV 6 was a properly developed car, designed to withstand the rigour of Alfa Romeo’s in-house testing programmes. The intercooler packaging was particularly well thought out, replacing the intake plenum on top of the engine to ensure effective cooling whilst reducing turbo-lag issues.
Despite the high costs of the Callaway GTV 6 - over 200 man hours went into each car -, and low production volume, the car was considered as a major success. Indeed, it was the GTV 6 that initiated Callaway’s projects with the Chevrolet Corvette after a GTV 6 ended up impressing General Motors on the proving ground.
The success of the Callaway C4 Corvette Twin Turbo, produced from 1985 to 1991, both on track and as a road-going ballistic missile, has come full circle. Now the essence of twin turbocharging, pursued by General Motors following their interest in an Alfa-based special, is set to blow Alfa Romeo’s future range into a new dimension.
Although it has to be anticipated that several of the projects in the development schedule will not make it into production, optimistic onlookers do however perceive a bright future. The current mentioning of Maserati parts sharing schemes, new large-capacity V8 power units, and all-wheel-drive thoroughbreds, all hammer home the desired direction of Alfa Romeo as a limited-compromise manufacturer of luxury sports cars.
Another, perhaps less-romantic side is the General Motors Powertrain joint venture. With many enthusiasts going green at the thought of characterless Alfa’s, it is worth mentioning that Alfa Romeo have an ironic and highly interesting past with General Motors.
This is a story which also ties in with the future 1.9 M-Jet Twin Turbo engine, a unit expected to debut on the Alfa 148 in 2006. The twin-turbo diesel engine is a result of the GM-Fiat Powertrain joint venture, with the general technology behind the engine already having been presented on the Opel Vectra OPC concept.
Fortunately, the advanced serial turbo charging technology which is to be used on the Alfa Romeo unit dispels the traditional disadvantages associated with bi-turbo systems, and allows for the ‘perfect’ combination of increased performance with lower fuel consumption.
The idea behind the new serial design is quite different from that of conventional parallel twin-turbo systems, with the two turbochargers being used both individually as well as collectively according to conditions.
At low engine speeds, up to 1,800 rpm, air induction is delivered without lag by a small, high spool rate turbocharger that is able to deliver up to 3.2 bars of pressure. The effect is immediate, with a tremendous 400 Nm of torque available from as low as 1,400 rpm on the 1.9 litre Opel prototype engine.
As the revs rise over 1,800 rpm, a butterfly valve, controlling the exhaust gas pressure to a second high volume turbocharger, starts to open.
With the rpm needle moving up to the 3k marker, the large turbocharger feeds increasing loads of air into the system, backed up by the additional boost of the small turbo.The exhaust gas butterfly valve opens fully at 3,000 rpm, with the large high volume turbo charger now in full control, dumping the engine with ever increasing amounts of cool air up to the red line.
The result is shockingly aggressive, like a steroid infuse gone berserk. There is no need to rev this engine to it’s limit, however, as the peak torque available between 1,400 and 3,600 rpm is where the acceleration is at its best. The 0-100 km/h dash is reached in a lightening 6.5 seconds.
Astonishingly, the new engine has delivered preliminary fuel consumption figures are lower than those of the current 1.9 litre JTD engine, making this a true masterpiece of engineering excellence.
And the ironic link with the past? Well, the Twin Turbo GM unit transpires in spirit from the 1983 Callaway C3 GTV 6, a car designed to Alfa Romeo’s specifications to trounce the Maserati Biturbo’s Stateside appeal.
The Callaway C3 GTV 6 was a properly developed car, designed to withstand the rigour of Alfa Romeo’s in-house testing programmes. The intercooler packaging was particularly well thought out, replacing the intake plenum on top of the engine to ensure effective cooling whilst reducing turbo-lag issues.
Despite the high costs of the Callaway GTV 6 - over 200 man hours went into each car -, and low production volume, the car was considered as a major success. Indeed, it was the GTV 6 that initiated Callaway’s projects with the Chevrolet Corvette after a GTV 6 ended up impressing General Motors on the proving ground.
The success of the Callaway C4 Corvette Twin Turbo, produced from 1985 to 1991, both on track and as a road-going ballistic missile, has come full circle. Now the essence of twin turbocharging, pursued by General Motors following their interest in an Alfa-based special, is set to blow Alfa Romeo’s future range into a new dimension.
Petros. Transaxleista!