I'm planning on doing a major transplant in the next we while into my fiat 124 sport. Yeah i know it isn't an alfa, lol
At the moment the 124 has a fiat 132 2ltr thats been played with and puts out 150hp at the fly. Is pretty quick but still could be alot quicker. I could easily go the croma turbo or grale engine like many in oz have but i'd rather do something more unusual even though i know i will end up paying for it.
I love alfa v6's, have driven many but haven't ever owned one and i have seen what you guys have done to your gtvs and got me thinking.
An alfa v6 either turboed or aspirated with either a supra box or bmw 6 speed depending more on what i can get and a skyline diff as they have the big brakes and independant suspension and can handle lots of power and are very cheap. Im even toying with the idea of using the entire running gear of a godzilla skyline but with the alfa engine. The four wheel drive and steer system and suspension on a custom chassis Be a mission but in saying that will get around all the dramas the 124s. It would be a hell of a sleeper to if the 124 still looks realitively stock, lol
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storm_rider_
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MerrilGordon
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Sounds like a very big project to me. There are plenty of Alfa 2.5L sixes around. They've been put into Alfa Spiders before with mixed results. Seems the problems involve chassis crossmember clearence, stiffness and weight ballence.
As for a sleeper, well, no one under 30yrs knows what a Fiat or Alfa Romeo is anyway (in the USA) so there would be no baseline reference for anyone to make assumptions from.
Is there enough gain for all the effort that would go into such a project ?
How about keep the Fiat as is, maybe do some turbo hop-ups to get a little more performance, and in parallel, find a GTV6, maybe one with a 3.0 already installed (plus other mods) and enjoy that car for what it is.
i.e. trade fabrication/development time for driving time.
My two cents anyway . . .
Merril
As for a sleeper, well, no one under 30yrs knows what a Fiat or Alfa Romeo is anyway (in the USA) so there would be no baseline reference for anyone to make assumptions from.
Is there enough gain for all the effort that would go into such a project ?
How about keep the Fiat as is, maybe do some turbo hop-ups to get a little more performance, and in parallel, find a GTV6, maybe one with a 3.0 already installed (plus other mods) and enjoy that car for what it is.
i.e. trade fabrication/development time for driving time.
My two cents anyway . . .
Merril
82 GTV6 3.0
radical conversions is what i live for..hell im putting a 2.5 turbo out of a dodge into the rear of a micro car....but thats anotehr subject
as for parts as much as the skyline parts would be cool AWD is more trouble than its worth in most cases and theres soooooooooo much more that can go wrong with parts as well as fabrication points...if you have your mind dead set on AWD i would take the skyline and remove the body and put the fiat body onto its floor pan.......now as for the fiat itself if you want to go 2.5/3.0 alf start by getting a motor as well as the ENTIRE harness from the car that the engine was in this will cut your build time down considerably...a doner car that you could rob parts from as needed would be ideal as you could cut out the frame rail sections for motor mounts and such and use it as grafting material instead of fabricating up parts, brackets from scratch...if it was me i would most likely grab an early 80s alfa v6 car and an ealry 80's supra...use the supra gear box as well as its very nice IRS ...altho if you wanted you "could" use the transaxle setup from the doner alfa tho im not to amused with 2nd gear ..and know all to well the durability of supra trans...personaly id take the supra transaxle and build a mount onto it for the supra trans and have NO drive line just a U-joint or directly bolt the trans to the diff house esentialy makeing it a transaxle..this will make the alfa 6 not require a cutsom bellhouse and retain the 50/50 balance that the gtv's have but gain the durability of a almost bulletproff transaxle
its almost never about the gains..but the creativity of building a 1-off and knowing you have a 1 of a kind toy ....but in alot of casses the gains are HUGE "if" the project gets completed...like the v8 celica thats brewing
as for parts as much as the skyline parts would be cool AWD is more trouble than its worth in most cases and theres soooooooooo much more that can go wrong with parts as well as fabrication points...if you have your mind dead set on AWD i would take the skyline and remove the body and put the fiat body onto its floor pan.......now as for the fiat itself if you want to go 2.5/3.0 alf start by getting a motor as well as the ENTIRE harness from the car that the engine was in this will cut your build time down considerably...a doner car that you could rob parts from as needed would be ideal as you could cut out the frame rail sections for motor mounts and such and use it as grafting material instead of fabricating up parts, brackets from scratch...if it was me i would most likely grab an early 80s alfa v6 car and an ealry 80's supra...use the supra gear box as well as its very nice IRS ...altho if you wanted you "could" use the transaxle setup from the doner alfa tho im not to amused with 2nd gear ..and know all to well the durability of supra trans...personaly id take the supra transaxle and build a mount onto it for the supra trans and have NO drive line just a U-joint or directly bolt the trans to the diff house esentialy makeing it a transaxle..this will make the alfa 6 not require a cutsom bellhouse and retain the 50/50 balance that the gtv's have but gain the durability of a almost bulletproff transaxle
its almost never about the gains..but the creativity of building a 1-off and knowing you have a 1 of a kind toy ....but in alot of casses the gains are HUGE "if" the project gets completed...like the v8 celica thats brewing
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storm_rider_
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I was thinking supra as well but the nissian setup is alot easier to find and alot cheaper. you can get a whole back end out of a cefero for $200 complete, thats the whole cradle, diff brakes etc. and if your going the rwd roote you could use an s13/s14 silvia front struts and get the skyline brake setup.
The 124 is pretty quick car but to get around alot of issue they have will require alot of work either way. Originally i bought a lancia volumax supercharged engine and a supra box and was going to build up a big horse turbo engine much like what alot of others have done. In the end i come to the conclusion the cash you need to spend wasn't going to give me reliable big hp. It also still meant you need to adapt bigger brakes and change the geometry of the suspension and alot of other things to. The brakes are pretty much at there limit now with the 150horse 2ltr.
I'd love to be able to use just alfa or fiat group parts but being realistic what you pay for them and what sort of performance you can get out of other makes like nissian or toyota it makes more sence to use them even if it is going to be a hybrid.
Ultimately im looking for around 500hp at the fly and i have been in enough fast old school cars when groing up too know all to well how they handle, majority of my friends had cortinas with big block supercharged v8s in them but easily the loosest thing i ever had a ride in was a ke10 corolla with a 13b PP in it, wheel spin in ever gear, simiple insanity. Thats also one of the reasons i am seriously looking down the all wheel drive roote as i know it will also handle the power as i know a guy thats now in the low 10's on the 1/4 mile with a 1000hp skyline running stock diffs and box.
Alot of people reading this will probably think buy a skyline or a 300zx of something but like i have read in many posts here they dont have any soul and are real ugly. I love italian cars and i like the idea of building something completely unique. Tell me really how many of you guys have seen the Todd Wilkes Giocattolo, Alfette and thought i could build myself on of those. Just real unfortunate he died but then theres the way to go out if you had to have a choice.
The 124 is pretty quick car but to get around alot of issue they have will require alot of work either way. Originally i bought a lancia volumax supercharged engine and a supra box and was going to build up a big horse turbo engine much like what alot of others have done. In the end i come to the conclusion the cash you need to spend wasn't going to give me reliable big hp. It also still meant you need to adapt bigger brakes and change the geometry of the suspension and alot of other things to. The brakes are pretty much at there limit now with the 150horse 2ltr.
I'd love to be able to use just alfa or fiat group parts but being realistic what you pay for them and what sort of performance you can get out of other makes like nissian or toyota it makes more sence to use them even if it is going to be a hybrid.
Ultimately im looking for around 500hp at the fly and i have been in enough fast old school cars when groing up too know all to well how they handle, majority of my friends had cortinas with big block supercharged v8s in them but easily the loosest thing i ever had a ride in was a ke10 corolla with a 13b PP in it, wheel spin in ever gear, simiple insanity. Thats also one of the reasons i am seriously looking down the all wheel drive roote as i know it will also handle the power as i know a guy thats now in the low 10's on the 1/4 mile with a 1000hp skyline running stock diffs and box.
Alot of people reading this will probably think buy a skyline or a 300zx of something but like i have read in many posts here they dont have any soul and are real ugly. I love italian cars and i like the idea of building something completely unique. Tell me really how many of you guys have seen the Todd Wilkes Giocattolo, Alfette and thought i could build myself on of those. Just real unfortunate he died but then theres the way to go out if you had to have a choice.
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- Giocattolo.jpg (55.21 KiB) Viewed 13514 times
^^ now that is a conversion !
why dont you do one of those?... god knows a sprint costs what? 500 bucks these days? holden v8 is no problem.
personally if i ever had the chance (keep dreaming) i would keep it all alfa with a 3.0+ v6 TT job, but cheap reliable mid mounted v8 hp is no bad thing.
why dont you do one of those?... god knows a sprint costs what? 500 bucks these days? holden v8 is no problem.
personally if i ever had the chance (keep dreaming) i would keep it all alfa with a 3.0+ v6 TT job, but cheap reliable mid mounted v8 hp is no bad thing.
"Fun is an unintended, unforeseen, and usually undignified consequence of life."
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Mezevenf
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A guy in our club has a Giocattolo, very nice machine
Easy power I think, it's a very impressive and clean conversion.
Easy power I think, it's a very impressive and clean conversion.
Bernard M (AKA Mef - Mezevenf)
1986 75QV 3.0L 24v V6 - Silver
1985 GTV6 2.5L 12v V6 - Red
1999 166 3.0L 24v V6 - Red
NightSpec
1986 75QV 3.0L 24v V6 - Silver
1985 GTV6 2.5L 12v V6 - Red
1999 166 3.0L 24v V6 - Red
NightSpec
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SydneyJules
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I'd love to do a Giocattolo with a TT 24v in it. Show the V8s where to go!
Storm Rider, love the ideas, should work well. Cut tunnel out. Reinforce Shock towers for IRS, fit silvia rear end (200AUD in QLD). Dont stuff around with a 12v 6. Theyre askingtoo much for them. Just get a 24v. The only reason I would stuff around with a 12v six is if you have a cheapy and some good gear. I like the idea of a 3.4L bore out on my 2.5...but the bucks....
Go the 124!
Storm Rider, love the ideas, should work well. Cut tunnel out. Reinforce Shock towers for IRS, fit silvia rear end (200AUD in QLD). Dont stuff around with a 12v 6. Theyre askingtoo much for them. Just get a 24v. The only reason I would stuff around with a 12v six is if you have a cheapy and some good gear. I like the idea of a 3.4L bore out on my 2.5...but the bucks....
Go the 124!
Fixing it bit by bit....
love those gio's to bad so few were made...anyway back to your ideas...befor you start cutting re-enforce EVERYTHING on the car cause your going to be cutting alot of strutcure out ..meaning your going to need to make sure the car stays straight..starting off by cageing the car would be ideal but understandable if ya dont want to go that route..a level surface to work on is also a must with a set of 4 jack stands to keep the car as it was placed
is the skyline rear a pod setup like jag, supra, merkur, t-bird...cause unless its a fully self contained unit youve got ALOT more work to it than is realy worth it...skylines are redily availible here in the US so ive never been under one out at the wrecker....love the AWD idea but unless you can graft some of the front frame sections into the car for the front struts you may never get the car aligned right
is the skyline rear a pod setup like jag, supra, merkur, t-bird...cause unless its a fully self contained unit youve got ALOT more work to it than is realy worth it...skylines are redily availible here in the US so ive never been under one out at the wrecker....love the AWD idea but unless you can graft some of the front frame sections into the car for the front struts you may never get the car aligned right
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Mezevenf
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You misunderstand, I dont think he is going for AWD, but the GTS-T route and only getting RWD skyline bits.
Skylines are even more common in Australia, as are most jap cars. They are all over the place!! Not a day goes by where I dont see at least 3 Skylines on the road.
Skylines are even more common in Australia, as are most jap cars. They are all over the place!! Not a day goes by where I dont see at least 3 Skylines on the road.
Bernard M (AKA Mef - Mezevenf)
1986 75QV 3.0L 24v V6 - Silver
1985 GTV6 2.5L 12v V6 - Red
1999 166 3.0L 24v V6 - Red
NightSpec
1986 75QV 3.0L 24v V6 - Silver
1985 GTV6 2.5L 12v V6 - Red
1999 166 3.0L 24v V6 - Red
NightSpec
i saw that and asumed he ment he realy wanted to go AWD......and to go AWD your going to need pretty much an entire parts doaner to get everything straight and mounted unless your one hellova fabricatorstorm_rider_ wrote: Thats also one of the reasons i am seriously looking down the all wheel drive roote as i know it will also handle the power as i know a guy thats now in the low 10's on the 1/4 mile with a 1000hp skyline running stock diffs and box.
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hfintegrale
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- Location: Galiza, Spain
Better than a Giocattolo. This is an Alfa Sprint with a Ferrari V8 engine!!! 
Look this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2rROTHn ... FA%20ROMEO
Look this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2rROTHn ... FA%20ROMEO
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storm_rider_
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Shortlife Is Right :)
I am looking at going all wheel drive, the biggist issue i can see is modifing the sump because the front diff assemble goes through it be it in a tube, lol What im thinking though is if i can get the alfa engine to sit back far enough in the engine bay then the diff assemble will be infront of the motor so i shouldnt need to try and mod the alfa sump.
I was going to get one of the many grey imports that here, strip all the bits i need and put the shell and engine up on trademe.co.nz and i can safely say we have way more skylines than anywhere other than japan itself. lucky us NOT. lol
I was even thinking midship with a porshe box to, lol The cost of that would be nuts though.
Is the 3.45 stroker motor the same as the 2.5 but with larger piston, liners and rods? or has it got a 3ltr crank to??
Scary really i should stop looking at trade me you can now pick up lexus v8 with everything for under $1000Nz. hmmm lol I think i will pretend i didnt see them and keep going down the alfa roote.
I was going to get one of the many grey imports that here, strip all the bits i need and put the shell and engine up on trademe.co.nz and i can safely say we have way more skylines than anywhere other than japan itself. lucky us NOT. lol
I was even thinking midship with a porshe box to, lol The cost of that would be nuts though.
Is the 3.45 stroker motor the same as the 2.5 but with larger piston, liners and rods? or has it got a 3ltr crank to??
Scary really i should stop looking at trade me you can now pick up lexus v8 with everything for under $1000Nz. hmmm lol I think i will pretend i didnt see them and keep going down the alfa roote.
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ALFA GTV6 GP
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Not better than a Giocattolo !
Giocattolo's are are perfect to drive handle like a dream the engineering of the Gio makes them a purpose built Supercar far from a sprint with a V8 in it or some crappy kit car.
John
Giocattolo's are are perfect to drive handle like a dream the engineering of the Gio makes them a purpose built Supercar far from a sprint with a V8 in it or some crappy kit car.
John
Alfa 75 3.0 qv potenziata (Black)
Alfa GTV6 3.0 (Silver)
Alfa GTV6 GP 3.0 (Red)
Alfa GTV6 GP (Concourse)
Alfa GTV6 SA 3.3 AHMotorsport (Grey) 226.3 Bhp atw
Alfa GTV6 3.0 (Dark Grey) 200+ Bhp atw
Alfa GTV6 3.0 (Silver)
Alfa GTV6 GP 3.0 (Red)
Alfa GTV6 GP (Concourse)
Alfa GTV6 SA 3.3 AHMotorsport (Grey) 226.3 Bhp atw
Alfa GTV6 3.0 (Dark Grey) 200+ Bhp atw
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storm_rider_
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pictures make more sence. :)
Thats the front diff and the rear subframe off a skyline
Finding a Getrag 6 speed from on though now that alot harder to find but for what i can find out the six is an overdrive anyway instead of straight through so a standard 5 speed is probably as good anyway
Finding a Getrag 6 speed from on though now that alot harder to find but for what i can find out the six is an overdrive anyway instead of straight through so a standard 5 speed is probably as good anyway
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- front diff.jpg (33.87 KiB) Viewed 13401 times
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- frontdiff2.jpg (25.88 KiB) Viewed 13401 times
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- rearend.jpg (20.48 KiB) Viewed 13401 times
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storm_rider_
- Silver
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I agree with you john
The rally spint is very cool but if i had a choice i know i'd definately still go for a Giocattolo, what do you pay for an original on now?? i imagine it would be huge money.