ALFAGTV6.COM

MALDI · Post by **MALDI** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:02 am

This link has recollections of Alfa engineer Filippo Surace on the birth of the Alfa V6 engine:

http://www.motorbox.com/Auto/Magazine/C ... /2785.html

Click on "galleria immagini" for more pictures, and under "Notizie correlate" for other parts of the story.

MALDI · Post by **MALDI** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:07 am

According to Surace, Alfa wanted to make the V6 a 2.2 L displacement engine (for tax reasons). Surace claims he had to push them to go for 2.5 L so as not to eat into 2.0 L four-cylinder sales. He also oversaw the enlargement of the engine to 3.0 L for the Milano Verde (it is implied that he thought it should have displaced 3.0 L all along).

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Mon May 14, 2007 8:35 am

Now this is a good post!!Thanks!..

MALDI · Post by **MALDI** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:00 am

Surace also talks about the trouble in implementing the transaxle:

(Apologies for the Google translation)

"The Alfetta, as an example, delayed of a year its release for the most large problems of vibration provokes to you from the [gear box]... There was an enormous research work in order to understand what was the problem, we had also the clutch behind and this created a worrisome resonant system; Porsche did not succeed to resolve it and brought back the clutch ahead."

I had never heard that Porsche tried a rear mounted clutch (presumably with the 924 and/or 928). Can anyone confirm this?

Post by **Zamani** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:14 pm

Nice!

BTW, Barry did you read the article on the South Africa's Superformance GTA (105) ? The car delivered from Autodelta was rated at 190 bhp? But it actually put out 132 bhp. That is nuts. The Superformance team brought it up to 188 bhp within 3 months.

What does this say about...you know...reputable big companies like Autodelta? The Alfa crowd goes all "wooooo Autodelta"...but once you read articles like this.... but I guess to its credit they did produce many winning cars.

Sometimes you really have to question the figures companies put out. Alfa included of course.

I guess the photo above was taken after the facility had been abandoned.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:30 pm

Zamani wrote:

I guess the photo above was taken after the facility had been abandoned.

My first though too. Damn, that place looks like it's been roof-less for 20 years!

sh0rtlife · Post by **sh0rtlife** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:53 pm

love to lay my hands on those carbs

MALDI · Post by **MALDI** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:15 am

He does say that the R&D group were one of the the last to leave Portello. Perhaps there was a little "deferred maintenance" seeing as they were getting new digs in Arese?

Also, note the front mounted clutch in the top picture.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:03 am

It also has the cool rear cambelt..

DaveH · Post by **DaveH** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:05 am

The 1st pic almost looks like the Montreal V8.

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:51 am

agree with above...and notice the clutch (maybe in the right spot??)

MALDI · Post by **MALDI** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:20 am

Acording to this web page:

http://vista.pca.org/az/motor_pool/articles2.htm

What Surace says about Porsche trying (and then rejecting) a rear mounted clutch on the 924 is true.

Quote:

"As the design [of the 924] solidified around the two main drivers--use of VW based components and unification with the 928-to-be configuration--several design options fell by the wayside. No front wheel drive layout like the Audi 100 or VW Rabbit, no rear/mid engine layout like the 911 or 914, the Porsche people would not agree to a live rear axle design, and, only water-cooled engines met the unification criteria. The engine choice was slam-dunked by the low-cost, high-volume requirement and was the VW built EA831 engine used in the Audi 100, VW LT van, and later in the American Motors Gremlin--no kidding! The transmission/clutch location went through all three possible combinations for placement with the result being a rear mounted transaxle gearbox with the clutch assembly mounted in the traditional location in the flywheel bellhousing. This arrangement provided for a large polar moment of inertia for the car about its lateral axis, which is what makes the 924-944-968 configurations so incredibly stable in corners. The location of the transmission at the rear meant that the drive shaft mounting, support and control was very important since the drive shaft turned at engine speed instead of gearbox output shaft speed. Many hours of trials and testing was done on a BMW 2002 "test mule" equipped with an Audi engine (front) and transmission (rear) trying out several candidates for the drive shaft design of choice. The final design was a hollow shaft (read torque tube) mounted solidly between the bell housings on the back of the engine and the front of the transaxle. The actual drive shaft, 20 mm in diameter and sixty-seven inches long, was mounted inside this tube on four ball bearing supports mounted in concentric rubber rings on the shaft and tube. Splined connections mated the drive shaft to the clutch and the transaxle at each end."

(Emphasis added.)

nisaar · Post by **nisaar** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:10 am

Hey Guys Here in South Africa we have that THREE POINT ZERO LITER motor,and its fast but everyday running its horrible.

You have to set those carbs every month because that motor is unstable it rattles the air screws loose, which makes it burn rich.

It also Drinks Like a pirate, the 3.0 gtv6 comes with a 75 liter tank which is large enough to park a small air craft in it.

Its nice but I pulled those carbs of my 3.0 gtv6 and put an efi on it right as rain after that

ALFAGTV6.COM

Birth of of our beloved Busso V6

More interesting info from that link

Transaxle reflections

Porsche transaxle cars