ALFAGTV6.COM

[la_strega_nera]

This got posted over on the BB...
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/311242.htm

[Mats]

I guess someone is pretty handy with the laws of physics. That looks like a std T3 or similar, hardly flows 300hp if you twist it's arm.
576 sounds "optimistic".

[la_strega_nera]

Yeah, so its more power than they were making at the height of Group A, but how can you tell what that turbo is from that grainy ass photo?
I guess it'd be better if he put a 155Q4/Lancia Delta Integrale motor in it.

[Alfettish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnIzjSGumBU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_0eWVPS ... re=related
Apparently it's 650 in this video.

[la_strega_nera]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnIzjSGumBU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_0eWVPS ... re=related
Apparently it's 650 in this video.

Well, its certainly freakin rapid, but i don't think thats a 400hp MR2 its pulling away from.
I think we can settle at maybe 400hp in the 75... god, my 1500kg falcon was that level of rapid with a *real* 410hp at the wheels and a tall diff.

[Rookie ROX]

Well for something that's supposed to be running low 11s, it certainly has power.

As has been pointed out there's several videos of it - There's this short one (http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/a ... ure099.flv) in which it clearly hits 317kw (430hp), it's not clear whether it hits more. The owner is a member on the BB, his signature claims 642.9bhp. Whether he's telling the truth or making up porkies for some unknown reason, it's a serious piece of machinery.

ROCK ON
R~R

[Mats]

It was an educated guess from what it had on the Cosworths and the size of the compressor housing.
Judging from the videos though it packs some serious power...

[la_strega_nera]

Watching it again... its hard to guage being filmed from another car like that... The other question is, what sort of dyno did they use for measurement? I mean, a DynoJet will read something like 15% higher than a Dyno Dynamics... or using some goofy fudge factor from a run down test to compensate for the driveline loss.

Consultation of a 1/4mile based hp "calculator" suggests that a car that light needs 300ish rwhp to turn the ET, but 400ish rwhp to turn 130mph terminal (terminal velocities are considered the more accurate of the two numbers for these kind of "calculators").

Either way, its plenty fast.

(Looking at his other photobucket pics, he's had some interesting experiences.....)

[mjr]

576 is not aptimistic at all. The cossie units are way way detuned for the road.

getting 600hp from a 2litre RS500 or escort cossie engine is possible, with stage 4 mods. These engines are way way more tuneable than just about any other engine, apart from the 2.5 nissan skyline unit.

Basically you need. bigger turbo, injectors, pump, flowed heads, ARP bolts, light weight con rods pistons, fully internally balanced, vernier cam pulleys, high lifters, 3 bar map sensor, new eprom, bigger intercooler, group A head gasket, 3inch exhaust with deleted cats. uprated gearbox. This will get you 5-600hp with reliabilty if driven sensibly, and rpms are kept below 4000.


330-350hp is a good figure for the cossie with reliability, which is stage 2 or 3. bigger injectors, fuel pump, new eprom, 3 inch exhaust with no CATS, group A head gasket, 3bar MAP sensor and adjustable boost, will get you 300-315 ish Hp without any internal changes.

I wouldnt think twice about putting a cossie 4 pot into a 75, its a far superior engine than the stock TS engine. they were built and then de-tuned big time to give 120000 miles reliabilty, hence all of the stock internals and manaegent run well below their potential. a simple chip ugrade with nothing else changed will give 280hp without anything else changed, and total reliability. For the same investement into engine mods on an alfa 2 litre twin cam, you would get way more power from the cossie unit. hence why they change hands for big money.

[la_strega_nera]

Interestingly enough, I went digging through his AlfaBB posts...
well the actual spec of the engine is abit of a guarded secret because at the moment in the uk there are 4 guys trying to extract mega power out of the alfa units and its a kind of unofficial competition however the engine did start life as a ts 2.0 lump and has just constantly been modified and had things changed or developed for example the block it is still based on the twin spark block however is has been heavily altered on the inside and no longer has liners to achieve thicker walls so it can hold more boost. also as you correctly point out it has an external timing belt instead of an internal chain because of reliability issues the chains kept snapping and was becoming very expensive. i have tried the 155 route but with lack of knowledge over here it was very very expensive to get good power figures so i infact ave utilised a cosworth head as it has a huge modifying pedigree and was the most economical and effeciant alternative to the twin spark system. apart from th head and rocker cover as you can see the rest is actually alfa based in one way or another

Interesting, but snapping cam chains? No longer has liners? (Unless he means like the Beck modified blocks, a monoliner with a deckplate that is bolted in)

One of his other posts mentioned 690odd hp with the Nitrous hooked up.

[Mats]

mjr: Changing that much on pretty much any 16v engine will give you 5-600Hp. All tuners that are not selling "BPU kits" are saying the same thing, the Cosworth head flows incredibly well, on one side... They are narrow as h3ll going out.

[mjr]

the standard green top post 89 cossie engines will flow quite happily up to about 340hp before you need to port and polish. The real issue with exhaust on these units under 500hp is the manifold and factory downpipes, not the port design so much. tuners are probably talking more about the pre 89 engine. The green tops have an adequate head design derived from the RS500 block and head, but you do have to throw away the factory exhaust pipe., Its very restrictive.


with a standard manifold, standard factory t034b garret, 3 inch free flow exhaust, chip and blue injectors, will get you 300-340hp depending on how much boost you want, without any more mods. thats big bang for little outlay.

[Giuliettaevo2]

The following was found on the alfaBB:

hi jj,

i didnt really want to make this about may car as i was curious about yours as im thinking of maybe doing the same as the next project.

im running a colloti 5 speed straight cut box which has been made as a one off for me it wont last forever i know but it has lasted a while so far, i also run a quaife atb diff which again was made for me specifically but i also know that wont last for ever so i had 2 made just in case. also drive shafts have been custom made by a local manufacturer to hopefully cope. i also have a single piece prop shaft again custom made to cope with what im using it for!

secondly with regards to the power. i had it on the rollers only last thursday and the car now has 543bhp at the fly wheel, without nos, but i do run nos on the right occasions and with that it was 698bhp. i must stress though that i dont use the TS head as i found it to restrictive and unreliable for my use so i know hase a 16v head instead.

also with regards to time of 0-60 this is with the car set up to go in a straight line so effectively drag set up which i dont use on the track, and it was recorded using a data logger system not my speedo and stop watch! on preiliminary set up runs the car has run 11.6 standing 1/4.
also with relaibility, anything developed as much as my car has reliability issues especially when you use nos but i only use the car maybe twice a year so it doesnt concern me.

More:

i tend to not make much fuss about my car to be honest as there is certain routes that i have taken which a few people dont agree with especially with regards to the engine. so i dont realy have any pics of the engine bay yet, there is several pics on the site of the car in various posts. Also i started the project when i was 18 so 5 years ago now and i have never been one for technology so i dont have any real photos of the project its self only a few little ones my dad took as i was going along or pics of the car now finished.

also i may only have it out a couple of times a year but the car gets severly abused in the time it is out this year alone the car has done over 30 standing 1/4s 2 track days and about 5 rolling road sessions with out a hickup. although i must confess im sure ill need a rebuild before the 3.7s.

your gearbox sounds similar to mine except for who has made them although i have had to replace 5th twice now.
i contemplated a carbon fibre prop but after shearing a couple in 2 of which i also have pics i was worried about the cost implications so have had it made out of steel.

yes crank power on a rolling road. the rwhp was 434.9 bhp and 558.4 respective of nos use. elevation and sea level? that not something we take into account over here in the uk.

the torque at the rear wheels was 389ft lbs and 501 ft lbs also respective of nos. this torque is at 3600rpm and the engine revs to 8500rpm. i have the dyno sheet but dont know how to get it up in the board????

these powers are currently on pump gas ive not yet stretched into race gas as over here it is very very expensive, but the peak boost i run is 2.0bar which tails off to 1.8bar.

im not running a ts head or any sort as i found them to unreliable i actually utilise a cosworth 16 valve head, and again the ts ali block was not good as i could not get the clamping pressure needed to hold it all together with the high amount of boost. it kept lifting the liners. so i have a ts block made out of iron and long studded the block so i now clamp the head down to 98 ft lbs with a torque wrench.

1050 kgs is good, mine now weighs 960kgs with all the carbon bits and the windows in plastic but dont forget my engine is a fair bit lighter also.

170-175 is very respectable and believe me it feels very fast in a 75, ive got a vid of my car on the rollers in 4th gear maxing out at 168mph or 269kph. in 5th we stopped at 190mph due to the chance of causing damage to the rollers. im not sure what the ratios are of the diff i have but i do also have huge rear wheels compared to the standard size and couple this with the higher revs the engine now has it means for a high top speed. the fastest ive had driving the car is 182mph up an airstrip but one of my windows popped out so i aborted the run.

All this can be found at the alfaBB (if you're a member).

click here

[Giuliettaevo2]

The following was found on the alfaBB:

i didnt really want to make this about may car as i was curious about yours as im thinking of maybe doing the same as the next project.

im running a colloti 5 speed straight cut box which has been made as a one off for me it wont last forever i know but it has lasted a while so far, i also run a quaife atb diff which again was made for me specifically but i also know that wont last for ever so i had 2 made just in case. also drive shafts have been custom made by a local manufacturer to hopefully cope. i also have a single piece prop shaft again custom made to cope with what im using it for!

secondly with regards to the power. i had it on the rollers only last thursday and the car now has 543bhp at the fly wheel, without nos, but i do run nos on the right occasions and with that it was 698bhp. i must stress though that i dont use the TS head as i found it to restrictive and unreliable for my use so i know hase a 16v head instead.

also with regards to time of 0-60 this is with the car set up to go in a straight line so effectively drag set up which i dont use on the track, and it was recorded using a data logger system not my speedo and stop watch! on preiliminary set up runs the car has run 11.6 standing 1/4.
also with relaibility, anything developed as much as my car has reliability issues especially when you use nos but i only use the car maybe twice a year so it doesnt concern me.

More:

i tend to not make much fuss about my car to be honest as there is certain routes that i have taken which a few people dont agree with especially with regards to the engine. so i dont realy have any pics of the engine bay yet, there is several pics on the site of the car in various posts. Also i started the project when i was 18 so 5 years ago now and i have never been one for technology so i dont have any real photos of the project its self only a few little ones my dad took as i was going along or pics of the car now finished.

also i may only have it out a couple of times a year but the car gets severly abused in the time it is out this year alone the car has done over 30 standing 1/4s 2 track days and about 5 rolling road sessions with out a hickup. although i must confess im sure ill need a rebuild before the 3.7s.

your gearbox sounds similar to mine except for who has made them although i have had to replace 5th twice now.
i contemplated a carbon fibre prop but after shearing a couple in 2 of which i also have pics i was worried about the cost implications so have had it made out of steel.

yes crank power on a rolling road. the rwhp was 434.9 bhp and 558.4 respective of nos use. elevation and sea level? that not something we take into account over here in the uk.

the torque at the rear wheels was 389ft lbs and 501 ft lbs also respective of nos. this torque is at 3600rpm and the engine revs to 8500rpm. i have the dyno sheet but dont know how to get it up in the board????

these powers are currently on pump gas ive not yet stretched into race gas as over here it is very very expensive, but the peak boost i run is 2.0bar which tails off to 1.8bar.

im not running a ts head or any sort as i found them to unreliable i actually utilise a cosworth 16 valve head, and again the ts ali block was not good as i could not get the clamping pressure needed to hold it all together with the high amount of boost. it kept lifting the liners. so i have a ts block made out of iron and long studded the block so i now clamp the head down to 98 ft lbs with a torque wrench.

1050 kgs is good, mine now weighs 960kgs with all the carbon bits and the windows in plastic but dont forget my engine is a fair bit lighter also.

170-175 is very respectable and believe me it feels very fast in a 75, ive got a vid of my car on the rollers in 4th gear maxing out at 168mph or 269kph. in 5th we stopped at 190mph due to the chance of causing damage to the rollers. im not sure what the ratios are of the diff i have but i do also have huge rear wheels compared to the standard size and couple this with the higher revs the engine now has it means for a high top speed. the fastest ive had driving the car is 182mph up an airstrip but one of my windows popped out so i aborted the run.

All this can be found at the alfaBB (if you're a member ).

click here

[alfacossie]

Hmm well what to say.

Firstly obviously none of you know the car for starters and also as some one else has said how can you judge a turbo from the horrid pic i put up.

It also appears people have taken info from various sources without taking into account dates and state of modification etc.

Well earlier development tried using as many alfa bits as possible in the construction of the engine including trying a cast iron block in replacement of the ts ali one however reliability became an issue so it is now a complete cosworth engine.

As for the t3 my t3 pushed out 379bhp. a standard cossie engine can run 330bhp on a t3 all day long!

But for the info it is a T4 and yes i am right at the limit of what it can realistically achieve.

As for power figures this jumped up and down depending on the nos i used as well as maps and setting up.

The video that someone noticed in my photobucket was 430rwhp. even if the dyno was not 100% the car has been on 2 reputable rolling roads both putting out over 500bhp at the fly with no nos.

The figure of 500bhp is far simpler to achive out of a cosworth than you can imagine but its just expensive. although cheaper than doing a 2.0ts turbo conversion to similar power or a 1.8 turbo to 400bhp thats why i ended up going this route.

Yes the car filming was an MR2 turbo with a dyno sheet for 400bhp at the fly. The figures that you have all picked up on a dependant on nos as i have said. the most power recorded from the engine WITH nos is 698bhp and that is with it running 543bhp with out. when it had 642bhp that was with nos also but the engine only had 506 with out it at that time.

In terms or terminal speed my fastest quater mile with out nos is 11.4 seconds with a terminal speed of 131 mph. and this was when the engine had 480ish bhp. so now with it being 543 and the possibility of nos and traction permitting mid 10s should be achievable.

Any more questions or swipes about it guys?