ALFAGTV6.COM

Alfettish · Post by **Alfettish** » Mon May 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Hi yall,
This weekend I'm looking at a Lancia Delta which is for sale for a good price.

I want to know from people if they have any advice for me looking at the car, considering ownership or just any other helpful hints.

It's an '88 Integrale with 80,000km on the clock.

Thanks in advance, I know at least one of you has had contact with the Integrale before...

Giuliettaevo2 · Post by **Giuliettaevo2** » Tue May 13, 2008 9:10 am

-rust on the bodywork and accident damage as well as a completely "used-up" body ( cracks from flexing in the corners..).

-service history... parts are very expensive and they are fragile when it comes to maintenance.

There are quite a few Delta-sites around which can give good advice about what to look for. Most of them will tell you to buy the best there is with the best documented history... this is not to scare you but if you buy a cheap one it is likely to gonna be very xpensive to get it good.

One of the best looking cars ever and a hool to drive!

Good luck with it!

Rookie ROX · Post by **Rookie ROX** » Tue May 13, 2008 2:22 pm

If you do end up buying it, you MUST bring it out and you MUST give everyone a ride!

If there was one car I'd buy in a heartbeat, it would be an Integrale.

ROCK ON
R~R

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:22 am

Giuliettaevo2 wrote:-rust on the bodywork and accident damage as well as a completely "used-up" body ( cracks from flexing in the corners..).

-service history... parts are very expensive and they are fragile when it comes to maintenance.

There are quite a few Delta-sites around which can give good advice about what to look for. Most of them will tell you to buy the best there is with the best documented history... this is not to scare you but if you buy a cheap one it is likely to gonna be very xpensive to get it good.

Ditto

If it has a sunroof look for rust from inside in the rear of the roof, 20cm from the sides on both sides.
Rear calipers are hens teeth, gearboxes and diffs are more expensive then a used Integrale, the rear "subframe" is usually bent and/or rusty and it's the most flimsy part ever.

Buying a good car is everything, a not so good one will make you hate cars and will turn you to sewing and such crafts.

Unfortunately the Integrales are not very fast, up to around 80-100 on very twisty roads you are king (until you use up all the vacuum in the brake booster and punch an Integrale shaped hole in the scenery) but on straight roads every newish highish performance family car will be faster.
Sad but true.

Alfettish · Post by **Alfettish** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:23 am

Thanks Giuliettaevo, I was aware of all but the cracked body. Thank you.

Yes, I'll give everyone a ride, no worries there. I told myself not to get my heart set on buying one , but the more research I've done really the more I'm craving one. Now it's in my system and I NEED ONE!!! Maybe....

There is a cheap (ish) LHD model for sale as well. I spoke with the owner and he reckons that it's old enough to be registered (1988 model). I spoke with someone from the Government and he wasn't sure but thinks cars have to be 30 years or older to qualify to be registered while remaining lhd.

Apparently a conversion would cost 10k.

Any one know?/?????

Alfettish · Post by **Alfettish** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:28 am

Thanks Mats. I'll inspect.

Yeah the problem with buying old performance cars is that they become less and less a performance car as time goes on.

I hate the fact that a Honda civic outperforms my GTV6 in almost every single way...

:(

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:36 am

Dude, thay are all LHD, I wouldn't touch a conversion with a 10' inert pole.

Alfettish · Post by **Alfettish** » Wed May 14, 2008 1:11 am

Nah, majority of the Deltas here have been converted.

SlewofDamascus · Post by **SlewofDamascus** » Wed May 14, 2008 1:52 am

Alfettish wrote:Thanks Mats. I'll inspect.

Yeah the problem with buying old performance cars is that they become less and less a performance car as time goes on.

I hate the fact that a Honda civic outperforms my GTV6 in almost every single way... :(

I was going to touch on this a little bit in my GTV-6 review when I conclude my GTV-6 intro story.

Perhaps the modern Honda Civic outperforms the standard GTV-6 on some spreadsheet. I went past a newish Civic yesterday while traveling very fast after the driver of said Civic begrudgingly reached his max speed/lane integrity as I negotiated - and he foolishly raced - the twisty and steep descent on westbound 24 right after the Caldecott Tunnel in Oakland. But the GTV-6 inferior to the Civic

I think that sort of depressing, self-effacing resignation misses the point, my firend.

Any fool can "drive" a Honda Civic. Hell, I owned one (many moons ago). For a moment, think about what it is to drive a vehicle. I'm relatively certain that one could be clinically dead and still get 'round in a Honda Civic (to its credit); it requires no special skills to operate and its whole raison de 'etre is to get one comfortably to points a, b, and beyond with as little amount of driver effort (and consciousness of actually driving) as is possible.

The GTV-6, on the other hand, demands that its driver be in touch with all of his or her senses, that he be able to draw a bead on the road condition as his gloved fingertips instantly record every imperfection radiating upward. The GTV-6 demands that you be alive. That you think. That you perform. The more driving skill that is applied to the vehicle, the smarter its performance and the greater our statisfaction. The difference between the Civic and the GTV-6 in this regard is the level to which the GTV-6 rewards the skillful driver (or the driver who simply wants to be a "better" driver).

The idea that time (the passing of it) has somehow made the GTV-6 irrelevant is one that I would fervently argue - understanding, of course, that time's passing is an end to all things

Thanks.

David
(with RSR)
edit to remove references to actual "irresponsible" speeds (like 105mph)

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Wed May 14, 2008 2:34 am

Alfettish: OK, they all were LHD when they left the factory. I still will never touch a conversion. Ever.

David, I'm not sure if you are talking to me when you talk about all that GTV6 stuff?
My point is, When I had my Integrale I had no fun on the twisty bits until I drove twice the legal speed (because the chassis is so good) but you really can not drive like that because it is increcibly irresponsible to everybody else around and you also might lose a ton of money and the license. But you still can't outaccelerate a stock Saab or Volvo or even a Passat on the highways. Can you spell frustrated?

Can't really compare it to a 116 car either because frankly they suck chassis-wise compared to a Delta Integrale, but that makes them fun even when you're not going supersonic speed...

SlewofDamascus · Post by **SlewofDamascus** » Wed May 14, 2008 2:50 am

Mats, I quoted Alfettish in an attempt to reply to his post. I was not replying to anything you said. I won't infer what you mean by "stuff".

I probably should have left off the "irresponsible" allegory, but since it was a civic and so fresh in my mind, etc. You bring up an interesting point (sidebar) - the GTV6, as bad as you say it handles - an argument I have seen refuted in print numerous times - still makes me want to push the envelope (I do have the RSR), and I'm having to fight that urge quite a bit. I wasn't expecting those urges to be as strong as they have been, and I am definitely trying to fall into a "safe" or "safer" pattern in my choices (I'm not perfect, man).

Is there a vehicle/situation you haven't been in?

Thanks.

David

Alfettish · Post by **Alfettish** » Wed May 14, 2008 3:17 am

SlewofDamascus wrote:
Alfettish wrote:Thanks Mats. I'll inspect.

Yeah the problem with buying old performance cars is that they become less and less a performance car as time goes on.

I hate the fact that a Honda civic outperforms my GTV6 in almost every single way... :(
I was going to touch on this a little bit in my GTV-6 review when I conclude my GTV-6 intro story.

Perhaps the modern Honda Civic outperforms the standard GTV-6 on some spreadsheet (I went past a newish Civic yesterday while traveling very fast after the driver of said Civic begrudgingly reached his max speed/lane integrity at about 95mph as I negotiated - and he foolishly raced - the twisty and steep descent on westbound 24 right after the Caldecott Tunnel in Oakland - I was still accelerating )? But the GTV-6 inferior to the Civic I think that sort of depressing, self-effacing resignation misses the point, my firend.

Any fool can "drive" a Honda Civic. Hell, I owned one (many moons ago). For a moment, think about what it is to drive a vehicle. I'm relatively certain that one could be clinically dead and still get 'round in a Honda Civic (to its credit); it requires no special skills to operate and its whole raison de 'etre is to get one comfortably to points a, b, and beyond with as little amount of driver effort (and consciousness of actually driving) as is possible.

The GTV-6, on the other hand, demands that its driver be in touch with all of his or her senses, that he be able to draw a bead on the road condition as his gloved fingertips instantly record every imperfection radiating upward. The GTV-6 demands that you be alive. That you think. That you perform. The more driving skill that is applied to the vehicle, the smarter its performance and the greater our statisfaction. The difference between the Civic and the GTV-6 in this regard is the level to which the GTV-6 rewards the skillful driver (or the driver who simply wants to be a "better" driver).

The idea that time (the passing of it) has somehow made the GTV-6 irrelevant is one that I would fervently argue - understanding, of course, that time's passing is an end to all things

Thanks.

David
(with RSR)

David,
I do agree with everything you said, and I was only thinking about this today.
I agree that it takes brains, physical skill and experience to drive a GTV6 (all transaxle Alfas for that matter) well.
I didn't say that I would prefer a civic.
I said the CAR mostly outperforms a GTV6, not that Civic drivers outperform Alfa drivers.
I know I'm a better driver than most of them out there because I have Alfas and drive them daily both aggressively and sedately. Loving the GTV6 and 75 and Alfetta allows me to identify their faults but to still accept the machines wholly because they are wonderful, exciting, involving, sensuous, addictive.

Don't take my comments as discounting the GTV6 because it's old, or that mechanically superior machinery has come along, I was merely stating that it's outperformed by something I feel so much hate and anger towards, the Honda Civic.

Anyway, we were talking about Integrales.

SlewofDamascus · Post by **SlewofDamascus** » Wed May 14, 2008 3:36 am

Gotcha!(the tone was not what I really intended)

You put it better than I could have - sorry for the mini-hijack.

Back to your regular programming..........................................

D

Alfettish · Post by **Alfettish** » Wed May 14, 2008 3:47 am

Mats wrote:Alfettish: OK, they all were LHD when they left the factory. I still will never touch a conversion. Ever.

David, I'm not sure if you are talking to me when you talk about all that GTV6 stuff?
My point is, When I had my Integrale I had no fun on the twisty bits until I drove twice the legal speed (because the chassis is so good) but you really can not drive like that because it is increcibly irresponsible to everybody else around and you also might lose a ton of money and the license. But you still can't outaccelerate a stock Saab or Volvo or even a Passat on the highways. Can you spell frustrated?

Can't really compare it to a 116 car either because frankly they suck chassis-wise compared to a Delta Integrale, but that makes them fun even when you're not going supersonic speed...

Nor would I 'touch' a conversion. I was just saying that you pay that extra for Deltas that have already been converted.
Or are you saying you wouldn't touch a car that had already been converted? I personally don't have a problem with converted cars; I drove an x1/9 that was converted for a while and it was great. They all must be inspected by engineers.

Alfettish · Post by **Alfettish** » Wed May 14, 2008 3:48 am

Which version did you have anyway Mats?

Lancia Delta Integrale