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GarthW
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What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

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While i was laid up in hospital i was given a book written by Jeremy Clarkson named Dont Stop Me Now. While it was a great read, and quite a thick book, i've just finished reading the last few pages of it now this morning. Ok its from his Sunday Times blurbs, and how they must be laughing to themselves from his Top Gear popularity that they can re-print all his old postings and churn it into a book and sell it..well i'm not complaining, for i very much enjoyed reading it, His humour is very funny, i've always enjoyed reading it... until the last pages.. for example, in the last pages of the book he wrote about the Alfa 159, which he loved by the way, but he went on a little about the old Alfa GTV6, and what he said about it really shocked me, i had to go back and read it again just to make sure i read correctly. I will write what he said, and from what i can gather, britain must have the worst mechanics in the world..for even in the Top Gear episodes i have heard him say how your Alfa will be lucky to start, or it will have another problem tomorrow, something like that, so again, britain mechanics are, and must be truly woeful, lame spanner throwers! Anyway, here's what he said....

"Take the old GTV6 as a prime example. I owned one once and it was a nightmare. The worst car i've owned. Deeply uncomfortable, spectacularly impractical and blessed with steering so heavy that navigating into a London parking space was like navigating a donkey into a budgie cage. Then there was the complete lack of quality, nothing worked, and when you got one thing fixed something else would break on the way home. Once it tried to murder me. The linkage from the gear lever to the rear-mounted gearbox fell off and jammed the propshaft, causing the rear wheels to lock."(Then in the end he says this)
"In essence, then, Alfa has understood what makes driving a car a thrill. But it has never been able to make a car. Well, not a car that a rational, normal human being might want to buy."

So what to make of his reportings? Well i for one think his arms must be made of porridge, for the gtv6 has light steering in my book, compared to other smaller cars i've driven..i once drove a Bathurst MR2 and damn the steering on that was way heavier, and the engine was in the back..Series 5 RX7 with a tiny 13B Rotary engine in the front, still heavy, i'm sorry JK, but your arms must have been in the gym lifting heavy weights just prior to you driving the gtv6, honestly, and the mechanical gremlins he faced shows whoever was working on that car is truly terrible. I had a british mechanic who worked on my gtv6 when i was in QLD, and he was awful, when i got back to Melbourne afew years later and had Hugh Harrison from Monza work on it, it felt like a new car, i rang him whilst driving and said"Oh my god what have you done, it feels amazing!"
The only 2 things JK liked about the gtv6 was the styling and the sound of the engine. To me its not impractical, i'm single with no kids, i can throw all my shopping in the back hatch, and the sunroof is great, i can have a friend stand on the rear floor and be out through the sunroof with a paintball gun wreaking havoc at cars we loath, mainly Holdens and the bogans in them, if we are lucky :P

But seriously, i think its a beautiful car which feels as though its made for me, and its suits me perfectly, and compared to all the other cars i've driven, i'd rather nothing else. :wink:
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Re: What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

Post by Mats »

What are you whining about, he is 100% right. :)
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Re: What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

Post by GarthW »

Haha... yeah right.

You cant be serious.....? :shock:
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Re: What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

Post by mjr »

well he is right in most apects really, but you have to maybe look at the whole picture.

1) clarkson is a journalist, his aim is to make a point in the most sensational, interesting and comedic fashion. clarkson will take any car's fault and amplify it 1000, to make his point. whilst he criticises the gtv6 there, i have read other reviews where he admits that despite its major misgivings, he liked the car a fair bit. clarkson clearly baught a lemon of a gtv6 anyway, and used it daily in london, clearly that daily commute into london was a big ask for the gtv6, which only amplified its already numerous design problems, which he is right about.

2) lets face it, the ergonomics and transaxle, propshaft set up are a POS compared to say, the bmw 323 set up of the day, or the far more sensible set up of the Ford Capri. to say that the gtv6 was high maintenance and fragile compared to the ford,nissan or bmw set up, would be entirely fair imo. alfa components were amongst the highest in quality, however, the factory execution, finish and quality control was utterly abysmal. As for crap british mechanics, well not really.

remember the british dealerships were used to dealing with bullet proof RS fords, bmw's, vauxhalls and nissans, built in the UK, all of which were very straight forward to service, carried none of the inherant fussines of the transaxle inboard set up, and cack handed backward quirkiness of the gtv either. suddenly given the transaxle alfas to service in the same time slots, it was inevitable that it took the dealerships a long time to find their feet with the 75 and gtv. result = shit reputation for reliabilty, because the dealerships never really trained the technicians properly, and cars went out incorrectly maintained and serviced. Also rarely had their british weather proofing subsidy spent on the cars, since the dealers would sneakily pocket the subsidy from alfa, and just rubber stamp the certificate any way. result= rusted quicker than you could apply the body filler!! the propshaft and rear caliper set up, were a classic example of alfas failure to thouroughly research the consequences of introducing an exotic set up into a mainstream GM/ford service network outside of Italy. Alfa were also abismal when it came to issuing timely service bulletins or recalls, which didn't help. any sensible alfa owner at the time would entrust the car to a specialist only, not the apalling british alfa dealer network. Lancia uk were equally bad.

it is a nice drive, but for instance. if i compare my gtv6 drive to my 155 v6 drive, there is no competition, the 155 is better in almost all aspects, apart from maybe the handling. not surprising, since its more modern, but also FIAT design was always more sensible and mainstream than Alfa. whilst the pure alfas were more exciting, there is no denying that the Fiat stable of cars from after the 75 went a long way to improving alfas reliability and mainstream user friendliness, something which alfa never really got a handle on, as they were too set in their ways, and didnt really understand the foreign markets. The gtv is flawed in many aspects, just as say the capri 2.8 was too, difference was, the capri was put together better in the factory, you could thrash the crap out of the ford all day long, and when it went wrong it was a synch to fix, just as all the fords and vauxhalls were. the gtv was far more exotic, and when placed into a big inadequately trained dealer network, was always going to end in tears .... that is why Fiat ditched the rear wheel drive set up, Alfa just didnt have the finesse and serviceability that bmw had with their rear drive set up. Fiat quite rightly were interested in international sales volumes, and from that point of view, ditching alfas rear wheel set up was the right way to go. fiats of the era out sold alfas plenty. whilst fiat still had a bad rust reputation, reliabilty and service were leagues ahead of the alfas in the adjoining workshops. alfa should however be applauded for their engine and ignition developments in the 80's. whilst most other european marques were slow to experiment, alfa always led the pack, in that respect.

Clarkson treats his cars like crap, he thrashes the shit out of them all the time. He is right about the gtv generally, but then so is he about old ferraris. he is just a tad sensationalist.....
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Re: What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

Post by Zamani »

LOL!

MJR didn't believe me about the 155 V6 until he bought a nice widey himself. :D
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Re: What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

Post by mjr »

yup Zamani, you are right :lol: . sad to say I am a convert! I never thaught a front wheel drive alfa would put a smile on my face..
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Re: What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

Post by Mats »

Zamani wrote:LOL!

MJR didn't believe me about the 155 V6 until he bought a nice widey himself. :D
I got one too... :lol:
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Re: What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

Post by GarthW »

Well i must say i'm abit surprised...but at the end of the way the mechanical setup of the gtv6 is pretty striaght forward, as for BMW's and that being more reliable, they have all had their lemons, my brother had a BMW 323 years ago and it was always in the shop, and i'd much prefer a gtv6 over a Ford Capri or RS lol. Yeah i'd love a 155 as well, but they never came here for i loved watching them in the BTCC.

As for saying the British dealerships were used to dealing with bulletproof RS Fords, is really a way of saying they didnt want to understand the Alfa gtv6 and the way it worked, my other mechanic Hugh Harrison has built some of the best gtv6's out there and they have 100% reliability, being thrashed on a regular basis, on the street and track with no problems, and yes i think Clarkson had a lemon, but i just dont think the mechanics knew a bloody thing over there. For nearly 9 years i've had amazing reliabilty with my gtv6, until recently i've had bent valves, which had done over 300,000kms...never a brakes issue, driveline, it only spat a fan belt and thats it. I'm sorry but i think the mechanics we have here all the way down in this little country of ours are way better. I've seen footage of cars over there on video, and sorry i'm just not impressed. I think in Britain they are way behind the 8-ball....still.
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Re: What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

Post by ALFA GTV6 GP »

mjr great post apart from you being a Fwd convert .

Garth the English mechanics which come to mind are top class mechanics who are perfectionists and are years ahead of the Ozzie and S. A. Mechanics

AHMotorsports, Alfaholics, Alex Jupe Motorsport, to name a few look them up if you have not heard of them. :)

However, saying that my next engine will be coming from Glenwood motors or maybe even the US.

I would like to buy Ozzie ie Beninca but you don't get the same value for money with the exchange rate.

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Alfa GTV6 3.0 (Silver)
Alfa GTV6 GP 3.0 (Red)
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Alfa GTV6 SA 3.3 AHMotorsport (Grey) 226.3 Bhp atw
Alfa GTV6 3.0 (Dark Grey) 200+ Bhp atw
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Re: What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

Post by mjr »

LOL. looks like we need a 155 section here too! ha ha hey guys I bet your lights on your climate control panel dont work properly?? I got a fix for it, if they dont :D


Garth don't forget we are talking about the main dealer mechanics of the era, not specialists. as gp mentions above there are many excellent specialists here, and there were then too. but most owners were put into the hands of the dealerships. bad!! you are probably right, the english dealerships took receipt of alfa models with a preconception that they were complicated and shit, so perhaps they never really had a passion for them, since all of the boy racers were busy buying XR2, Xr4's and Escort Mexicos! Also the gtv6 in south africa was quite different to the 2.5GTV. You found this with saphire cossworths in the UK. though the same car, the build quality difference between the saphire cossies and the normal every day 2.0ghia saphire was evident, simply because they had been built on a different production line. I think maybe the same can be said for the 3.0 Sa model gtv? They do seem better built than the standard euro 2.5. You will never find the variety of gtv6 projects in the uk, like there is in SA, there just isn't the movement here, plus there is way way more choice when it comes to vehicles, better vehicles frankly. I love my GTv6, but have to admit, the Brooklans capri 2.8, nissan 280z, opel monza 3.0 are all put together better, and better suited to the British environment, all be it, not as soul stiring or exciting as the GTV though :)
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Re: What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

Post by GarthW »

Alfa gtv6 GP-Yeah well your taking a huge gamble buying from overseas, and i know alot of mechanics from here, where for some strange reason are being flown all over the world to work, build and tune cars....funny that...oh and people even sending their cars by boat to Oz, hmmm even stranger.. :roll:
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Re: What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

Post by mjr »

yeah, the work going on with Gtvs in Sa, Oz and america is just way more exciting and productive than in the UK. Its very tame here, in comparison. tell you what though, if you can blame one car for screwing up alfa reputation in the uk in the late 80's and early 90s, for reliabilty, there is one that stands out way above the rest. The 33 16v. The most unreliable POS alfa ever introduced. The 33 1.7 8v, wonderful car. The Permanent 4 and 16v :roll: poo. :lol: worst gearbox and engine management system ever dropped into an alfa!! then there was the 14516v boxter too. oh dear! lol
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Re: What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

Post by ALFA GTV6 GP »

Garth maybe when the Ozzie $ was worth 44US cents but you won't see that any time soon.
Look I already have a AHMotorsport engine 250 Bhp atw from a 3.3 12v v6 (Harrison, Beninca ,Pace, I contacted to build me a engine none of them would guarantee more than 200 bhp atw and they wanted to charge 25 to 30 thousand )

I also have a race motor that I bought from RJR racing Florida that I will be fiitting for this season the build quality is AAA I will dyno and post the results.

There are three Glenwood motors in Perth the build quality is not as good but the do put the power down for the money.

When you have funds to deal with professionals the risk is negated.

Which companies don't you trust ?

Which mechanics do you know getting flown all over the world to work,build and tune cars?

How many cars have been sent by boat to Oz what cars's ? :shock:

Are you statements even relevant to Alfa's. :roll:

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Alfa GTV6 3.0 (Silver)
Alfa GTV6 GP 3.0 (Red)
Alfa GTV6 GP (Concourse)
Alfa GTV6 SA 3.3 AHMotorsport (Grey) 226.3 Bhp atw
Alfa GTV6 3.0 (Dark Grey) 200+ Bhp atw
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Re: What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

Post by Mats »

Let me get this straight, British people actually think of eighties Ford cars as reliable? We are talking about the Escort, the Sierra, Scorpio/Granada, Orion and all other pieces of $hit I might have missed? Oh, the Fiesta! :lol:

I don't think anyone in Sweden or any northern country would think of that gang as anything else then useless rustbuckets youonly had because you couldn't afford anything decent. 8)

Remember that Clarkson writes in Britain for the British audience, generally speaking, there is actually a reason for why the British people are living isolated on an island... 8) :lol:
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Re: What Clarkson said about the gtv6...arrrgh.

Post by Duk »

ALFA GTV6 GP wrote:Which companies don't you trust ?

Which mechanics do you know getting flown all over the world to work,build and tune cars?

How many cars have been sent by boat to Oz what cars's ? :shock:

Are you statements even relevant to Alfa's. :roll:
I read an article in Zoom magazine years ago that said some NASCAR teams were sending their engines to an engine builder somewhere here in South Oz. That may have been cost related, it may have been performance or even a personal relationship (freind/family). Who knows.

I also know that over the years Anthony Rodriges (spelling), known for his drag rotaries, has been flown to other countries.

But I will say this, where I live, there isn't a mechanic I would leave my car with for any maintainace! Period! I even watch the guy who does wheel alignments for me.

Actual story from a mate of my uncle, who use to work as a mechanic for the resident Holden dealer. The service manager was (apparently) telling mechanics to change parts on cars that were in only for rutine sevices. Parts that didn't need to be changed (not faulty!) but were, and then billing the customer accordingly! :evil:

There are good quallity dealer mechanics and bad quallity ones. Same as the backyarders who can do excellent work and 'speciallists' who are busy telling you that your car can't handle anymore boost (not mine, but a mates), without knowing a single thing about the car, but couldn't even set up the dyno software to provide a propper readout (plot went behind their huge logo and the scale was set so low, we didn't get to see what it got to on the graph)!!!

*Hey Garth, I think you should edit your posts that say JK instead of JC. Can't go dragging down Jim's reputation anymore than MD try's to do :P

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1419/article.html

http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0706
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