ALFAGTV6.COM

[Zamani]

Looks like it.

I wonder if Alfa's days are numbered. However Alfa's European sales are up. So maybe there is still hope Alfa, especilly with the MiTo already out and the 149/Giulietta coming out. I think SAAB died because they failed to evolve, and the SAAB Impreza didn't help.

[MD]

Hey Zeefa, aren't the Chinese going to own and build it?

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/ca ... Over-Saab/

[Giuliettaevo2]

On the Dutch forum they are talking about a German VAG-group(Volkswagen Audi Gruppe) take-over for Alfa Romeo...

opinions on how good this would be for Alfa are wide apart..

The build quality and dealer network/ parts service would be a huge improvement. People worry most about the lost of 'italian soul'.

FIAT has shown not to be a worthy owner for the Alfa brand, they're still undecided about what to do with it. VAG would probably be better at taking decisions.

[MD]

I don't know about Europen models or other export markets but in Oz to the best of my knowledge Alfa already uses a lot of German stuff in their cars like,

ATE brakes,
Bosch alternators, ECU's, Injectors,relays, starter motors,wiper motors,fuel pumps
ZF steering racks, and power steering parts.
ZF transmission eg the ZF automatic transaxle for the 75
Sachs clutches
Bearings all over the place

I must say, I prefer the Bosch product over Marelli or Lucas.

What they should do is get the Germans to finance and market it but let the Italians design, test and build it. That would work for me.

[Giuliettaevo2]

The parts you mention are from brands that are OE fitment for most European cars.. BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Audi, Citroen, Renault etcetera all use thes parts on their models. Why invent your own alternator if you can buy one from Bosch....

The VAG group uses the same egines and platforms for their brands. The Seat Ibiza shares a lot with the VW polo for example. Skoda's, Seat's, Audi's and VW ( Lamborghini is a bit different although a lot of parts are also used by Audi) share a lot of mechanical parts. If Alfa is to be included in this there must be some radical changes... From JTD to TDI would be a step back in my opinion... But DSG is superior to Selespeed.

I would like VAG to step in and save the marque. They could put Alfa back in the market and use it against BMW, the historical opponent. They should make it rwd again, the Quattro can stay with Audi. keep the Italian design department and get that De Silva guy back from Seat!

We'll see what happens...

[ar4me]

Unfortunately, Saab is dead: http://money.cnn.com/2009/12/18/autos/s ... /index.htm
GM announced today that it is over. This morning I noticed that our local Saab dealer's signs were already covered with Mitsubishi banners.

VAG is probably better off with Audi going up against BMW. I don't see what VAG would use Alfa for - besides close down a competitor. I think it makes sense for FIAT to keep Alfa, if they can figure out how to market their line of brands

Jes

[ALFA GTV6 GP]

SAAB who ?

John

[Mats]

Looks like it.

I think SAAB died because they failed to evolve, and the SAAB Impreza didn't help.

Saab had nothing to do which way the brand was heading, GM all the way. All decisions were made by GM and they only looked at the ned three months, like all stock market companies.

Saabs biggest problem was the similarity to Opel, Opel being much larger and always releasing the cool stuff first. Since Saab was "integreted" into the GM Europe umbrella Saab and Opel was more or less one company, on paper. All the high ranking bosses or head of departments were either German or American. That was not at all good for Saab since all the german bosses always took side for Opel and all the Americans (except one, he put his foot down and made the Turbo-X happen.) did exactly what the bean counters in Detroit told them.

A few Examples:
-9-3 wagon was ready in 2002, released much later.
-9-3X was also ready in 2002, only just released...
-9-5 was very much on the way on the premium platform (AR 159) but was put on hold, it has been pushed ahead more times then you would think.
-9-2X was a stupid GM badge engineering f-up
-Caddy BLS was a stupid GM badge engineering f-up
-9-7 was a stupid GM badge engineering f-up
-New 9-3 was being moved around the platforms a lot too so they effectively made sure that wasn't going to happen any time soon either.
-New 9-5 wagon was on the way even though it was being done mostly in the US prior to the carve out.

-New 9-5 is currently (well, prior to Friday) being built on the production line in Trollhättan. It's done, all paid for and now ready to make money
-9-4X is ready to be built in Mexico, ready to make money...

Other interesting facts:
-All 4WD work in europe was done at Saab, the Alfa 159 system was also done at Saab. Hence all the development hardware is at Saab.
-All brake dynos available in europe are at Saab.

There are a number of lead areas at Saab, so this is I guess bad news for the Germs too since they just lost quite a few engineering departments, even though the carve-out has been going on for over a year.

Do I sound bitter? Well, I am. Very bitter.

And for the record, there were a shitload of great guys in the US that I had daily contact with (when I was at Saab, which I'm NOT anymore), these are the guys that were good for Saab and provided tools for getting projects done and were really focusing on getting all the models out realizing we were all in it together. There were a few ot those at Opel too but they were scarce...

[ar4me]

Although GM said "over", maybe it isn't quite over yet: http://money.cnn.com/2009/12/20/autos/s ... /index.htm
Spyker making new attempt... Was the Friday closure announcement by GM just a tactic to get renewed interest from potential buyers?
Jes

[MR2 Zig]

Could be as you suppose Jes, or could be a ploy to get more government money (handouts), or a ploy to get more money than had been offered.

Sad to see this happen. I thought the Saabs in the 80s and 90 were interesting though not really my style.

[Mats]

Merbanco is also back with another bid...