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x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:52 am

E6x requires installation of cam or crank sensor wheel with Home signal for igntion accuracy. I just don't feel like spending 400$ more for e6x and 200$ for crank wheel sensor setup. Shit, the car was only 2000$.

I will run in multipoint, not sequential. So injection timing is not critical. Fuel will lay around in some runners a little longer than others, but it really won't be noticed at high rpms...

I just bought the Crane unit and it handles ignition timing just fine..

Basically, I am just replacing the whole Bosch setup and not really gaining an advantage except fine tuning of injector pulse duration and getting rid of the flapper box.

PS: haltech and their distributers charge high price for sensors, but these are common and a little internet time can save you half price. Example, I needed 1bar sensor; haltech 70$..internet OEM 35$. Plus I already have all the sensors from the E6s...

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:09 am

So I was calling around to buy a haltech f10x locally and there is one distributer...

TURNS OUT that this distributer was a chief tuner for several racing teams and had built a worked 3.0l milano engine.. unfortunately the car was wrecked but the engine was saved in the back of his shop for the last 15~ years

Anyway, I bought the heads from him for a reasonable amount.

Heads are completely worked with 45mm intake and 39mm exhaust valves, rear oil galley ports, intake and exhaust ported, bronze guides, racing springs, nitrided lifters and Colombo cams (brand new by the way)..engine only had a few thousand miles before the wreck. And he was nice enough to throw in 7 brand new valves....

And he was the Haltech distributer so I was able to get the f10x from him as well. REAL knowledgeable guy with tons of Alfa stories

PS: if anyone needs any turbo stuff for any car, check out his website:

www.turboconceptsllc.com

..he told me he was turbocharging Alfas in the seventies...

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:15 pm

What will you use for ignition now then?

E6X can be used with the stock dizzy like the std setup, no need for wasted spark or sequential.

fedezyl · Post by **fedezyl** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:06 pm

You are definetely a lucky guy matee!!! what I wish I could get my hands on such heads!

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:07 pm

I will stick with the CRANE system as it works fine...for now..and the whole setup cost under 1000$US

Until I mount a crank sensor..I am limited to dizzy advance technology

I may have an aluminum disc machined and painted flat black instead of the plastic one that came with the kit. This is for inside distributer...

As another plus, the guy I mentioned above also tunes Haltechs.

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:25 pm

Fedezyl..yeah, I am happy to get them and he was definately happy to sell them to an Alfa fan!

He blocked off the central oil tube in bottom of head and ran two independant braided feed lines up from the oil pressure sensor hole with an "X" fitting so the sensor still sit in near same location.

Post by **Zamani** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:40 pm

Will the F10X be triggered by the dissy signal?

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:27 pm

No..I don't think you can trigger the system directly from Hall effect dizzy without some kind of signal interpreter...you could trigger it off a hall effect magnet wheel mounted on the crank or optical sensor on the cam..

But why do this when it is REAL EASY hookup off coil (-) terminal...This is the same way the Bosch ECU is triggered.

spoke with Haltech AU guy and he said "no problem". I checked out the software and it works well with XP pro. if anyone interested, you can download it at:

http://www.haltech.com.au/downloads.htm

Just do an "offline" run...obviously , you can't see engine data but you can go through "help' and 'setup'...etc...

the setup is :
Crane xr3000-292 for igntion and HAltech f10x for fuel control

If you really wanted to get rid of flapper and bosch fuel control, you could retain the bosch ignition/spark system and use the Haltech for fuel control.

From what I could get out of the wiring schematics for the Bosch system, the common connections between Bosch Ignition side and Bosch Fuel side is WHITE wire at coil (-), the throttle position sensor, maybe a temp sensor and common power and ground. Otherwise, Bosch l-jet system is really two independent systems barely working together.

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:31 am

well , I guess all good things are not always as they seem:

In my rush to get the cams, I bought the heads for just a little more money...and did not realize they were 2.5 heads...so the oversized valves (Intake ~45mm, ex ~39mm) are the same as 3.0 valves.

BUT..seller did a real nice job with seats and porting..bronze guides, brand new valve guide seals.

C+B cams are a 282S road Max cam which is perfect for what I want..and they are mint.

The 2.5 heads have a slightly smaller bowl which I calculated to be approximately 39cc vs 49cc for 3.0 bowl

This increases compression approximately 2.1% from 10:1 to 10.21:1

all other things line up perfectly and al valves shimmed right. So I hate to take the cams out of the 2.5's and put them in the 3.0 because of valve shimming

any thoughts..

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:31 am

well , I guess all good things are not always as they seem:

In my rush to get the cams, I bought the heads for just a little more money...and did not realize they were 2.5 heads...so the oversized valves (Intake ~45mm, ex ~39mm) are the same as 3.0 valves.

BUT..seller did a real nice job with seats and porting..bronze guides, brand new valve guide seals.

C+B cams are a 282S road Max cam which is perfect for what I want..and they are mint.

The 2.5 heads have a slightly smaller bowl which I calculated to be approximately 39cc vs 49cc for 3.0 bowl

This increases compression approximately 2.1% from 10:1 to 10.21:1

all other things line up perfectly and al valves shimmed right. So I hate to take the cams out of the 2.5's and put them in the 3.0 because of valve shimming

any thoughts..

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:55 am

Well I just checked valve heights and other specs and I have the shims...looks like I will be putting the C+B cams(which also came with a set of Carillo rods)into my 3.0 heads

I just have to grind out a little room for the Intake lobes on each side of the lifters..oh yeah, and shorten guides.

going to put in a set of stronger valve springs and new retainers

Interesting Note: In the worked heads, the valve guide seal was grey with a lower compression band and an upper compression coil...real nice unit that I have not seem on Alfas..must be from other manufacturer

will try to find out..

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:41 pm

Took the worked heads completely apart. Prior builder went a little too far with the grinder along inside of follower bores: too much wobble of the followers now for me to be happy

also, exhaust arm guide rod(the big rod) in backward

also, all valve guide seals crushed because C+B cam lift was TOO much for the distance

SO, with my spare set of 3.0 heads..I plan to drill out center of lower valve spring washer and sink the intake valve guides ~5mm(plenty of room on other side). This along with minimal follower bore edge grinding will allow the C+B cams too work nicely without crushing anything...

anybody have other thoughts??

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:10 am

If you remove ~25% oc the combustion chamber you must get a much bigger CR increase.

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:25 am

using rounded figures:

using 3000cc engine/6=500cc per cylinder

2.5 bowls: 82mmD = 41mmR with a 19mmH = ~39.31cc

3.0 bowls: 92mmD = 46mmR with a 20mmH = ~49.43cc
about 10cc difference

using standard bore stroke:

3.0 has 96mmB x 72.6mmS

I don't know piston top volume or deck height so setting these to zero for both heads makes:

3.0 head on 3.0 11:1comp
3.0 w/2.5 head 13:1comp

Whoops...must have had a decimal in the wrong spot...thanks Mats

I know these comp ratios are not correct for the engine but the difference between them should be close....

so by putting 2.5 heads on a 3.0 engine, you can increase the compression from ~9.5:1 to about 11.5:1.. a little high for pump gas

By the way, I found out who sells the better made valve guide seal..Centerline. It is a teflon seal.

allalfa · Post by **allalfa** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:55 am

Sperry Valveworks may have a few parts for your head job indeed. Also, from what I have read I would say that your problem is definately electrical. Given that you have replaced soo much stuff, I would probably go back to the basics, I had the same identical problem that you have been experiencing in my Milano ince. Let me ask you this, do you have an alarm system in that car?