2.0 4cyl max liner bore
how much can nord(ts) liners be bored for NA build ? ... no monoblock of course ... ? my need is to bore them to 86mm ..but is it safe enought
For what? Very high hp/revs engine? Sprints or endurance? How long service/replacement life?
I can't answer you but hopefully someone can with a little more info.
I can't answer you but hopefully someone can with a little more info.
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
just for track car ... but not much stressed 7500 max rpm NA ..
why i want 86 bore ?
1. cheap liners ... overbored worn stock 84mm ones
2. lot of cheap off the shelf 86 pistons... for example dodge neon hypereutectic pistons brand new 120$ set
better design, short moly coated skirt,stronger, low expansion, much lighter , options for different ring sets
3. smaller pin 20mm gives option to vary piston heght (CR) with close to 2-3 mm
4. of course more cc
5. 46.5-47 mm valve seat insert on TS head is very close to stock liner edge and gasket ring
why i want 86 bore ?
1. cheap liners ... overbored worn stock 84mm ones
2. lot of cheap off the shelf 86 pistons... for example dodge neon hypereutectic pistons brand new 120$ set
better design, short moly coated skirt,stronger, low expansion, much lighter , options for different ring sets3. smaller pin 20mm gives option to vary piston heght (CR) with close to 2-3 mm
4. of course more cc
5. 46.5-47 mm valve seat insert on TS head is very close to stock liner edge and gasket ring
2.0 4cyl max liner bore
I am currently building a Nord engine with a TS head and 85mm pistons.
I had my stock liners bored to 85 mm but have now decided to junk them for a set of custom ductile liners. I have seen and heard of many cracked cylinder liners with 2.0 race engines, and after spending a lot of time and money I do not want to take any chances.
I do not beleive the standard liners will take a 86mm bore. Its already too thin at 84mm). That will only be 1.5mm wall thickness at the bottom spigot area! and 3.4mm between cumbustion and water for the head gasket to seal.
Gozzoli has special 86mm liners (stainless I think) and head gaskets to match, but not cheap.
Those Hyperutectic pistons you describe are probably no better than standard alfa items and the money you are saving there you will lose in modifying the rods for different pin/height dimensions.
I have noticed that with aftermarket rods there enough room in the crakcase to stroke the crankshaft prabably to around 100mm stroke! Has anyone tried or heard of this?
I had my stock liners bored to 85 mm but have now decided to junk them for a set of custom ductile liners. I have seen and heard of many cracked cylinder liners with 2.0 race engines, and after spending a lot of time and money I do not want to take any chances.
I do not beleive the standard liners will take a 86mm bore. Its already too thin at 84mm). That will only be 1.5mm wall thickness at the bottom spigot area! and 3.4mm between cumbustion and water for the head gasket to seal.
Gozzoli has special 86mm liners (stainless I think) and head gaskets to match, but not cheap.
Those Hyperutectic pistons you describe are probably no better than standard alfa items and the money you are saving there you will lose in modifying the rods for different pin/height dimensions.
I have noticed that with aftermarket rods there enough room in the crakcase to stroke the crankshaft prabably to around 100mm stroke! Has anyone tried or heard of this?
As far as I know the sides of the crank case is not the issue, it's the clearance to the bottom of the liners that is the tightest area. Also, with a 100mm stroke the rods needs to be a lot shorter and the pistons a lot lower for them to not hit the crank on the bottom dead center, sounds like an impossible dream.
Stainless liners sounds like a very odd item, are you sure they are stainless?
Stainless liners sounds like a very odd item, are you sure they are stainless?
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
The stock liners are not very stiff. This is a small problem as the like getting oval when honed. I need to get mine to 85 mm as well.
Are there any reasonable priced alternatives? The monostuff is just out of my budget.
100 mm stroke? To lose the rest of the rpm the engine can do. I'm destroking mine to 82-84 mm.
Most Alfa pistons are not very nice from design. Even the forged ones are heavy compared to other brands.
Are there any reasonable priced alternatives? The monostuff is just out of my budget.
100 mm stroke? To lose the rest of the rpm the engine can do. I'm destroking mine to 82-84 mm.
Most Alfa pistons are not very nice from design. Even the forged ones are heavy compared to other brands.
2.0 4cyl max liner bore
Not so impossible Mats. As I said if you use an aftermarket rod (such as Carillo or similar) the clearance between the bottom of the cylinder and big end section of the rod is increased. I found out after fitting such rods to my block.
As for piston skirt to crank counterweights, well you would be using pistons with a shorter skirt (alfa's are very long compared to others) and with lighter pistons you can also trim those counterweights down. Remember 6mm is all thats needed.
Just think of the capacity if you add an 87mm monoliner!
I visited Gozzoli a few years ago and he had available 86mm liners made from stainless (or a type of stainless) at 350,000 Lire about $260 US each.
Micke there are a few 4 cylinder engines out there with long strokes. honda, mitsubishi, mazda, toyota and others. The honda guys fit stroker cranks to their screeming engines!
As for piston skirt to crank counterweights, well you would be using pistons with a shorter skirt (alfa's are very long compared to others) and with lighter pistons you can also trim those counterweights down. Remember 6mm is all thats needed.
Just think of the capacity if you add an 87mm monoliner!
I visited Gozzoli a few years ago and he had available 86mm liners made from stainless (or a type of stainless) at 350,000 Lire about $260 US each.
Micke there are a few 4 cylinder engines out there with long strokes. honda, mitsubishi, mazda, toyota and others. The honda guys fit stroker cranks to their screeming engines!
omg! cheap shots everywhere!
KingDom, But you still need to move the big end bearing surface on the crank outwards 6mm. That is a lot, or would you grind it down 12mm on the dia to offset it?
Sounds like a pretty strange way of tuning the engine, the pistons needs to be very short but at the same time you need a shorter rod making the side load greater. Almost easier to start from scratch and cast a new crank case.
KingDom, But you still need to move the big end bearing surface on the crank outwards 6mm. That is a lot, or would you grind it down 12mm on the dia to offset it?
Sounds like a pretty strange way of tuning the engine, the pistons needs to be very short but at the same time you need a shorter rod making the side load greater. Almost easier to start from scratch and cast a new crank case.
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
2.0 4 cylinder max liner bore
Just an update on increasing bore and stroke.
I have recently spoken to a couple of alfa engine builders that have bored the stock liner out to 86 mm and have not any problems. They both said it requires boring and honing the sleeves in the block with a deck plate. I still prefer a dutile liner or even better a monosleeve !
I previously wrote that when using performance type of conrods there is adequate clearance between the rod and bottom of the liner for extra crank stroke. I asked if anyone has heard or tried this. Well the other day while doing a google search for alfa items I came across a site by "Autovolante" that have a stroker kit for the Alfetta TS !
http://autovolante.tripod.com/id13.html
How much is the stroke and what does this cost?
I have recently spoken to a couple of alfa engine builders that have bored the stock liner out to 86 mm and have not any problems. They both said it requires boring and honing the sleeves in the block with a deck plate. I still prefer a dutile liner or even better a monosleeve !
I previously wrote that when using performance type of conrods there is adequate clearance between the rod and bottom of the liner for extra crank stroke. I asked if anyone has heard or tried this. Well the other day while doing a google search for alfa items I came across a site by "Autovolante" that have a stroker kit for the Alfetta TS !
http://autovolante.tripod.com/id13.html
How much is the stroke and what does this cost?
looks like bmw or opel piston ? my friend run 85mm nissan pistons on his 2.0 TS turbo 1 bar boost 1.2 overboost 10 000 km without problems 
Yes,Opel 16v piston!Nice spotting there D..Any detonation will split it though,so creep up on max tuning gently....
This particular engine is now breaking std GTV6 twin clutches..I told the guy to keep boost low..Ya,sure he says..
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.